Chocolate Genetics question

RAREROO

Crowing
10 Years
Jul 22, 2009
4,517
66
254
Alapaha, Ga
I just saw a post asking about recessive chocolate and dun-based chocolate. What is the difference between the two and what do they mean? I've done some rearch on how do breed chocolate into other breeds but it didn't say anything about using dunbased or recessive. So can anyone give me any info on the differences between the two and if both can work for breeding choc. into other breeds?
 
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Sonoran Silkies

Flock Mistress
11 Years
Jan 4, 2009
20,149
444
421
Tempe, Arizona
These separate genes each create a bird with a chocolate-coloured appearance. Dun is an allele of dominant white; it operates as an incompletely dominant gene. One copy and the bird is chocolate coloured; two copies and the bird is khaki/fawn coloured. Either hen or cock can pass the gene to both genders of offspring.

choc, however is a sex-linked recessive gene. Females carry only one copy. If the copy is Choc+, they are not chocolate coloured; if it is choc, they are. Males carry two copies. If the are Choc+/Choc+, they are not choclate coloured; if they are Choc+/choc, they are not chocolate coloured, but can pass the gene to their offspring; if they are choc/choc, they are chocolate coloured. choc hens pass the gene to their sons, but not their daughters; males carrying choc pass the gene to offspring of both genders.
 

Junkmanme

Songster
12 Years
Mar 11, 2007
2,202
12
201
Near Gallup, New Mexico
Sonoran Silkies....

Once again, an understandable and concise explanation.
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-Junkmanme-
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RAREROO

Crowing
10 Years
Jul 22, 2009
4,517
66
254
Alapaha, Ga
So what are Chocolate Wyandottes that Sandhill sells? are they dun-based or recessive chocolate? What I am wanting to know is what will happen when I cross the Sandhill chocolate Wyandottes to another black breed. From what I understand about the chocolate genetics: A chocolate roo over a black patterned hen produces chocolate hens and black (split chocolate) roos and then several years of work with backcrossing, outcrossing, and inbreeding to get the chocolate to breed true in the new variety that I try to create. so does that work with the Sandhill Choc Wyandotte? I think that other post said they were dun-based.
 

Chickndaddy

Songster
12 Years
Jul 26, 2007
1,014
9
171
East Texas
From what I understand Sandhill's are indeed dun-based Chocolate birds, not the recessive Chocolate. You could breed them to black (I think) but like breeding Blue (Andalusian blue) you will get Dun/Chocolate, and Khaki/Fawn. If you are breeding to Black birds then I think black will pop up as well.

If you want recessive Chocolate I would look elsewhere for those genes.
 

Sonoran Silkies

Flock Mistress
11 Years
Jan 4, 2009
20,149
444
421
Tempe, Arizona
Rather than referring to the chocolate coloured birds of a specific genetic variety as chocolate, let's call them choc or Dun when meaning a specific set of genes. If we are referring to the phenotype let's say chocolate coloured. I think that that will eliminate some confusion.

There are apparently minor phenotype differences, although I have not seen any choc birds in person, and I don't believe I have seen choc and dun birds in a single photo that would thus allow me to distinguish between them based upon phenotype.
 
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Sonoran Silkies

Flock Mistress
11 Years
Jan 4, 2009
20,149
444
421
Tempe, Arizona
Quote:
Correct

dun X black = 50% black, 50% dun

dun X dun = 25% khaki, 50% dun, 25% black

dun X khaki = 50% dun, 50% khaki

khaki X black = 100% dun

khaki X khaki = 100% khaki
 

AnSfarms

In the Brooder
12 Years
Mar 15, 2007
76
1
29
Nebraska
I have found this to be true a well. I raise Dun wyandottes and had a pen set up with a Dun cock over dun hens and black hens. I hatched out equal amounts of duns and black from that pen and a couple Khakis, of which I have a Khaki rooster left.

Fun color to work with and you really can improve on type very quick since you can breed a well established black type bird with Dun.

The Khaki color is very striking. My roo I hatched has a light beige base with a bit darker hackles and saddles.
 

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