Cocci preemptive strike?

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by Chooksaurus, Nov 26, 2009.

  1. Chooksaurus

    Chooksaurus Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I recently adopted 8 hens from my parents, who are cutting back on their flock. They are from the same chick orders as our hens were, and as referenced in a different post , I did not feel that the situation warranted a 30-day quarantine period.

    Another concern has popped up, though. Our flock had a bout of cocci near the end of September. It is all well and good now, but since then we have had 6 Cochin bantam chicks hatch as well as the addition of the 8 hens today.

    My concern is that those birds who have come in since the cocci bout will have a greater chance at catching it while scratching around in the run since our first group had it. Is there anything that I should/could do? With winter snow coming any day now, their time outside may be limited, but I would really hate to run into a situation with all the new birds getting it. It would mean we would lose complete egg production while treating the whole flock since they all use the same water can.

    Is there anything that could be used as a preemptive measure against cocci aside from vaccinating otherwise healthy birds?


    (edited for typos)
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2009
  2. AHappychick

    AHappychick Wanna-be Farmer

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    you could do a compleatly natuaral way and give them some powdered milk in their feed, (all birds have cocci its just sometimes it gets overwhelming or some strains are perticularly tough) or if you really want to make sure you can get some Amprol First state vet has it in liquid form for smaller flocks, and put that in their water. It is realitively natural and blocks the vitamin B that the cocci need to live, they die and are expelled.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2009
  3. crystalchik

    crystalchik Chillin' With My Peeps

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    You should treat your entire flock for Coccidiosis about every month during the winter, and about every month and half to two months when the weather isnt as harsh. Also again when you get new birds, as they could carry it to your birds. Coccidia can come back and reinfest the flock, even the ones that have already had it, and though most birds have some tolerance towards it, they wont survive if they are heavily infested because it is a parasite, not a disease they can become resistant too. And usually by the time you see one bird sick they all have it and its too late to stop the spread...you know how that goes Im sure. [​IMG]
    I would treat with Sulmet, this is usually the med of choice to treat Coccidiosis. Egg production will not be effected, usually. I would say that your best bet would be to just go ahead and treat them all, at least once, now that you have new birds.
    Another option I use sometimes, if you reeeaally dont want to treat them all, though I recommend it, is I take a small piece of bread and put about 0.2-.04cc of Sulmet on it (depending on size) and put it down the throat of a bird. I do this to treat a bird that is not drinking and I usually see improvement in sick birds. However, this is my remedy I use to treat my birds, and as far as I know, there are no directions for it, so I cant really advise you on what dosage to use on your birds and I cant say that what works for me will work for you. But you could always try it.... Like I said, the most effective way is to just treat all of them, since they may all need it anyways. [​IMG]
    Good luck!

    Another natural cure you could try is Apple Cider Vinegar...it is used to treat just about everything, including parasites and Coccidia. You could look up the dosage, but I think it is about 2tbsp per gal... not sure on that though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2009
  4. maf2008

    maf2008 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    How much powdered milk to feed? dry of course?..... does this prevent cocci as well as Apple Cider Vinager? [​IMG]

    Quote:
     
  5. AHappychick

    AHappychick Wanna-be Farmer

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    just sprinkle enough into the feed that is is about maybe 25% powdered milk to feed, maybe 30% does not matter that much.

    The powdered milk (I preffer organic powdered goats milk I get at the health food store but it is pricey and any will work) DOES NOT prevent cocci rather it coats the intestines keeping them from bleeding and having really bad sores from the damage the cocci does. Since they all have it and always will have cocci it is a matter of helping them out when they are struggling to develop their resistence to it, and sometime some strains are stronger or just overwhelm their systems.

    They die from the damage caused by their parasitic ways and the milk helps with the damage part and getting over the hump.

    If they are suffering an outbreak I use it while using the Amprol as well. But every once and a while I treat them all with some powdered milk in their feed as a preemptive strike [​IMG]

    my chicks usually get it bad just one time when they are about 3 weeks old, then we get over it with the aid of the Amprol and milk and it goes away and usually does not come back

    The Amprol is very importnt and much less of a chemical than the other meds for cocci and is needed if you have a real bad outbreak.
    The ACV is good as an overall health benifit in many ways one is helping with parasite control but it is not a cure all as is DE these things all help keep the bad at bay and stuff like that. [​IMG]

    ETA we all have out ways but I would not blindly treat all of my chooks with strong meds like summit if I did not have to that stuff not only is no good for us but very harsh on their systems. There are people who swear by it and sometimes it may be needed when the Amprol is not strong enough (that has yet to happen to me though) but it is very harsh on their systems and you should give them a pro biotic mash or at the least yogurt while treating with it to make up for the damage it causes them.
    the last person who posted lives in FL so I know that some stuff is stronger out their due to the moist warm climate so maybe it is necessary for them I don't really know.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2009
  6. Chooksaurus

    Chooksaurus Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Sulmet will not affect production, per say, because they will continue to lay. However, it does affect my ability to eat and sell eggs because of possible reactions to sulfa. I essentially lose all eggs that are laid during the treatment and for 2 weeks(?) after, so even though they are laying, they are not edible.

    For those who use Amprol and Corid, do you treat regularly during the winter, and how does it affect eggs as far as eating/selling? I thought I read that eggs from birds being treated by Corid are still ok to eat, but I can't find the post.

    Thanks!
     
  7. AHappychick

    AHappychick Wanna-be Farmer

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    since the Amprol/corrid just block the vitamin B in the chickens system that the Cocci needs it does not effect egg production, edibility, or smell in any way that I know of. Although that is what I was told by Dr. Brown as I have never had to treat my Adults with it yet (and hope I never do)
     
  8. chickenannie

    chickenannie Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Another option:

    From what I have read, there is a benefit to NOT medicating chicks against cocci, because they will inevitably be exposed to cocci at some point and they will not have developed any immunity to it. Some people have used medicated feed, then changed to nonmedicated feed and lost lots of birds due to their not having any immunity to cocci.

    Personally, I am of the "natural" raising philosophy where I allow my chickens to be exposed to "good" bacteria, as well as "bad" bacteria, and I believe it makes them healthier and more resistant. Since my chickens do very well without medications, I have come to think that maybe folks are overmedicating theirs (but I'm no expert either). I have never wormed any of mine in 4 years, nor fed them antibiotics. Yes, I occasionally lose a chick to illness, or a grown hen, but it is rare.

    One or two of mine will occassionally have a runny poo, or a bloody poo, but then it goes away and their poo is normal again and the chicken is fine. This is true of my turkeys, too.

    Maybe I'm just lucky, but I think they are pretty hardy and they seem to develop high immunity to everything.
     
  9. Chooksaurus

    Chooksaurus Chillin' With My Peeps

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    chickenannie, I tend to agree with your general philosophy, and follow it as well.

    We only medicated our flock when the cocci got bad enough that there were puddles of blood in place of poo, but it was a bit of a scary experience. They went from normal to puddled blood in a short time and I thought we were going to lose them all.

    I guess rather than trying to get ahead of something that may never get that bad again, I will just wait and treat it as/if it occurs. I figured the new kids would just have a greater risk because the original group had such a bad case.

    Time will tell. Thanks all for your advice and options.
     
  10. fourfeathers

    fourfeathers Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I went ahead and treated my newly introduced 6-week old chick to some older chickens as well as them with the Corid for 5 days. I did the preventative dosage for the rest of my flock that isn't in the same run, but ranges nearby. I had a bout with cocci...first in 7 yrs of having chickens....a couple mos prior that I treated with Corid, then sulfadimethoxine. Symptoms went away, all was well, but with introducing the younger chick I wanted to try to do a preventative. There are 9 types of coccidia the chickens can get and they do develop an immunity, but if you have had a recent bout I'd treat or watch closely. I corresponded with Dr. Brown and he suggested the sulfadimethoxine over the sulmet for effectiveness and less danger in harming the kidneys. The former isn't as readily available at the feedstore however as the sulmet. My two cents.
     

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