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cocci ?'s i can't find answers to...

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by Fluffy-Butt-Farms, Oct 26, 2009.

  1. Fluffy-Butt-Farms

    Fluffy-Butt-Farms Chillin' With My Peeps

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    im in the middle of a crisis...

    i've had 5 chicks die in 25 hours. thought it was the bedding (used new brand) so i took out the bedding and put down paper towels...and to my horror saw a lot of blood. of course the first thing i did at 1 am is kick my bf off the computer and read a lot on here...but at 1 am, there wasn't anything i could do. i'm pretty sure it's cocci....and my friend had sulmet, so i ran to her house this morning and got it. i made all the lathargic ones drink..but for them i think it's too late. i have 3 that are pooping blood really bad, and one with only a little blood in it, but can't figure out which of the 20 left are the ones pooping blood.

    best i can figure it a) came out of the bedding... is that posible do you think?, b) came from my friends house cause she hatched some chicks out for me and i went and got them after she threw them in her brooder...((unlikely though as her chicks dont have bloody poops)c) when i picked up some chicks from the swap, they were carriers (had to put them together to get them home) or when we made the brooder, we missed some areas while disinfecting (but some of the chicks that just started dying are almost 3 weeks old....wouldn't they have died already?)

    do you have any experience with cocci? what do i do with my hatches in lockdown now? just make a temp brooder? can they still be in the same room? everyone eats medicated feed, so i'm wondering how i got it anyway. do i put the new ones on sulmet immediately, or wait to see if they show symptoms (the ones that are due to hatch any day)? do i bother bleaching the sick brooders now, or wait til everyone stops treatment?

    i've read everything i could in the last hour, and will continue reading, but those answers i'm not finding anywhere.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2009
  2. Yvonne37894

    Yvonne37894 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I hope that some one answers your questions that knows.
    A friend of mine is haveing the same problem.
    She has home grown chicks.
    Good luck
     
  3. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    Sulmet will work very rapidly or not at all. Corrid is an alternative treatment that many prefer. It's not generaly available at my feedstores, so I use sulmet.

    First, I try to keep the number of chicks in a single brooder fairly small so that I can more rapidly spot ones who are in trouble. I really prefer 10-12 chicks, but will sometimes put 15 together. Absolutely no more than that. If I have more chicks, I start a 2nd brooder.

    Most coccidia do not cause bloody stools, although the most deadly do. Anyways, the lack of blood in stools does not mean that you are coccidia-free.

    Disinfection does not necessarily kill the oocysts that cccidia grow from. I think scrubbing ans sufficient drying time probably do. Coccidia thrive in damp, in droppings and are also transmitted via bugs, contaminated water and feed. If one chick in a brooder has some, they will probably pass them (indirectly) to the others.

    What kind of bedding are you using? Some chicks (especially young ones) eat bedding, and that can cause problems.

    ACV in the water will help limit coccidia as it creates a gut-environment that they do not thrive in. For an emergency short-term-until-you-can-get-proper-meds treatment, it is a help. Of course it is better to have sulmet or amprolium on hand. There are several products that contain amprolium: corrid is the most common; there is also albon and some others.

    If you can separate the chicks, take those that look the most lively and keep them together, putting the ones who are most lethargic together. Keep an eye on both groups, but closest on the lethargic group. Make sure you are using medicated starter for them, and do NOT give vitamins while treating for coccidiosis. Both sulmet and amprolium work by limiting the amount of a nutrient necessary for the coccidia to thrive. Amprolium limits thiamine; sulmet limits folic acid. The other anticoccidials have different mechanisms or nutrients that they limit.
     
  4. Fluffy-Butt-Farms

    Fluffy-Butt-Farms Chillin' With My Peeps

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    ok, what is ACV? so i can go get some.

    they were on pine shavings, and then i switched to a different brand of pine shavings. then they started dying, so i pulled out all the pine shavings and put down paper towels. thats when i noticed the blood..and not a little blood, a lot of blood.

    unfortunately, i can't put all the healthy ones together, as they are from 2 different brooders and the ee's hate everyone.

    i have the sulmet in their water now, and am changing the paper towels they are on as i see the blood on it, but cant figure out who's the ones bleeding. the ones that are lathargic to me i made drink the water. i haven't checked them in a bout 2 hours.... (my heart hurts [​IMG] but will go in there soon.

    my feed stores around here dont have corid, so i'm hoping the sulmet works. and i'm going to order oxine, but for now i'm going to first use bleach on the brooders, let it dry and then use ammonia...since i get both answers.

    they were on medicated food, but after reading on here, i'm learning that doesnt always help.

    i'm going to go to the store and get them some yogurt and some powdered milk, which was also suggested to me. so maybe between everything, i will get them better.

    NOW>>>>>>>
    can anyone tell me, if i put my new hatch (due any day) in the same room, but a different brooder......will they not get it???
     
  5. pips&peeps

    pips&peeps There is no "I" in Ameraucana

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    If you have feed stores that cater to the cattle industry then they should carry corid. It would be in the cattle section.

    I would sit down and call the feed stores in your area to see if you can find it. I highly recommend it over sulmet. I believe the dose it 9-10 cc or 1 tsp per gallon of water.

    Also, you can kill the cocci oocytes with Oxine. Do a google search and you can find it for sale. You do not have to get the citric activator for it to work.


    I also would make sure your chicks are on medicated starter.
     
  6. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    Coccidia is spread through direct contact. So in a brooder that contains no oocysts, no interchange of drinking water or food (OR the waterers/feeders) they will not "catch" it.

    I would recommend reading the article from Merck: http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/200800.htm

    from
    the link:
    "Oocysts are resistant to some disinfectants commonly used around livestock but are killed by freezing or high environmental temperatures." So I would not expect oxine or bleach or ammonia (especially ammonia) to be effective at removing them. Scrubbing thoroughly would be your best bet at removing them. If you have a large enough freezer or oven, that would work, too.
     
  7. pips&peeps

    pips&peeps There is no "I" in Ameraucana

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    Quote:Oxine does kill oocytes. I called the company directly that manufactures it and spoke to a person who is their poultry specialist. You can put it directly in the drinking water and it will keep it from spreading via that route.
     
  8. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    Okay, good to know. I do know that oxine kills many bacteria and viruses, but oocysts are a different creature entirely. Unless it had been tested and proven, I would not expect it to be effective.
     
  9. Fluffy-Butt-Farms

    Fluffy-Butt-Farms Chillin' With My Peeps

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    i'm looking for oxine now. of course, it wont be here for 7 days, so i'm going to scrub the brooder anyway, can't hurt right? the brooder is made of sealed wood, (it was a hospital cabinet) so it should be easy to clean. then, once the oxine is here, it will get another thorough cleaning with that.
     
  10. PunkinPeep

    PunkinPeep Chillin' With My Peeps

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    This might be mostly for my own curiosity. But will you tell me how old your chicks are and where you got all of them? Did you say you got some of them from a swap meet?
     

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