Cocci vac

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by fishbum, Jan 3, 2015.

  1. fishbum

    fishbum Out Of The Brooder

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    I'm getting ready for my first "big" hatch of 25-30 chicks. My question is what is the best/preferred method of vaccination for cocci? Medicated feed or actual vaccines?
     
  2. ChickenCanoe

    ChickenCanoe Chicken Obsessed

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    I don't think a vaccine is practical for a flock that size. It can be done but it's usually for large commercial flocks and can cause lesions that need further treatment.
    http://www.thepoultrysite.com/publi...t-for-natural-and-organic-poultry/47/vaccines
    Many people use a medicated feed. Different from a vaccine, it includes a thiamine blocker to starve the oocysts.

    IMHO, prevention is much simpler. With 30 chicks, it's pretty simple to keep the bedding bone dry and feeders full. That will preclude the need for either.
    If it ain't broke don't fix it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2015
  3. fishbum

    fishbum Out Of The Brooder

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    I thought the feed had weakened oocysts so chicks built an immunity? I had ordered hatchery birds last season with Mareks and cocci vacc. The chics showed up with a bottle of sulfa?????? I didn't use the product sent and most of these birds ended up with respitory issues. The hatchery told me that birds treated/vacc for cocci would have fewer health problems overall down the road. Very confused with all this.
     
  4. ChickenCanoe

    ChickenCanoe Chicken Obsessed

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    Medicated feed has a thiamine blocker, usually amprolium or something similar. Much different than vaccine. If you read the ingredient list on medicated feed, you'll see it.
    I've only used medicated feed once in 60 years and never vaccinated. I only had to use Corid (amprolium) once in all that time.

    I would like to know their explanation of how a cocci vaccine could make the birds healthier in the long run. That confuses me too so don't feel like the Lone Ranger.

    The sulfa was probably to treat for any resilient coccidia infection.

    Keeping the bedding dry and allowing the chicks some outside access will give them some exposure without allowing a heavy infestation. Coccidia must have a moist environment in order to complete the life cycle.

    http://en.wikivet.net/Coccidia_Life_Cycle
    Here's a good video.
    http://www.animalhealth.bayer.com/fileadmin/media/baycox/baycox_coccidiosis_sheep_090518.swf
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2015
  5. fishbum

    fishbum Out Of The Brooder

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    Since i didnr treat with the sulpha and you are correct that it was for any residuals. My guess and im guessing in my experience was that the cocci opened the door for the respitory issues with the same birds.

    But ultimately your saying that unless l have a problem it's not really worth bothering with to medicate?
     
  6. JuicyFatHead

    JuicyFatHead Chillin' With My Peeps

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    This is great to know! We've had 60 birds with no vaccinations, started on medicated feed with no problems. Just lucky? dunno
     
  7. ChickenCanoe

    ChickenCanoe Chicken Obsessed

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    But ultimately your saying that unless l have a problem it's not really worth bothering with to medicate?
    That's my take on it. I'm sure we have several strains here (as do most places on the planet) but I take no precautions.

    I actually doubt coccidiosis had much if anything to do with a respiratory issue unless it weakened the birds to a point that they were susceptible to anything.

    Probably. Coccidia are everywhere and several strains affect chickens. They seem to be quite a problem with mammals as well.
     
  8. ella&clara

    ella&clara Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I got 9 chicks 3.5 years ago, and I just had my first batch of meat birds processed. I have never had any trouble with any diseases until recently, and I did not have mine vaccinated. As I understood it, good hygiene and access to the clean outdoors (not confined in a filthy outdoor run) should allow exposure to the cocci in small doses that allows the chickens to build immunity. When they were chicks I gave them clean bedding twice a day probably, and I give them as much fresh pasture as possible by moving electronet fencing.

    The problems I had recently, described in https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...ees-when-trying-to-look-at-me-new-behavior/10 and in https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/940223/post-molt-chicken-is-skinny-and-antisocial/10 and in https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/941194/should-i-remove-her-comb-pecking-injury-with-pics/20.

    Basically, here's what I think caused the coccidiosis. She molted in October, and as you may have observed, when chickens molt, they become skittish, avoid others, and eat less. Molting is stressful. We also have a rooster, and, although I've never seen any damage from his amorous efforts, I'm sure the experience isn't fun when you have few feathers. She withdrew from the flock and escaped, and wandered around getting what she could from the woods. In Nwov the temperature got down into the teens and she had to be out in it. During this time I also had my batch of 17 meat birds and I didn't pay as much attention to the layers as I might have otherwise. I think she was stressed, and malnourished because the others were keeping her from her food,. After the meat birds were processed, all of whom were healthy, I noticed her and saw how skinny and very antisocial she was. I started posting here, and people said to worm her. Then I thought about my dogs and realized that there are several different treatments for worms. I took a stool sample to the vet and it turns out she had coccidiosis (although she had no bloody stool or obvious signs of problems) and nothing else. So I put her on corid, and she improved.

    If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't vaccinate. I'd pay better attention to my chickens in hopes of avoiding having things escalate to this point, and I'd separate any who look ill. She also got pecked pretty badly and got wry neck on top of it all. She seems better now, after I've had to transport her hundreds of miles in a dog crate in the back of my car with her friend because I couldn't confine her with the rest of the flock--they would have killed her.Poultry vitamins, eggs, and tuna, cocci test and wormer...I'm $50 into saving this chicken! Perhaps I'm too soft-hearted to be a chicken keeper :( My husband thinks I am insane, but he cheerfully eats the eggs and loves having our own meat (as long as it isn't raised in our garage and transported in our SUV).
     
  9. fishbum

    fishbum Out Of The Brooder

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    From what I'm understanding cocci is like MG. Its already in the birds and its just a matter of to what degree. I hear everyone say to close your flock if you've had a case of MG or cocci but it's in every back yard flock. If your birds feet touch soil they have it. The only birds that do not are commercial. Correct me if I'm wrong. I know the NPIP tests for neither of these things.
     
  10. ChickenCanoe

    ChickenCanoe Chicken Obsessed

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    Not really alike.
    Coccidiosis is a protozoa that is picked up while foraging, often in the birds' own feces. It affects the digestive tract only and can't be spread vertically from hen to chick in a transovarian manner.
    Mycoplasma gallisepticum is a bacteria like organism that can be transmitted transovarian. MG is one of the most problematic diseases for poultry.
    There are many species of mycoplasma, just like there are many species of coccidia. Some affect chickens, some mammals.

    Coccidia oocysts have to be consumed. Feet touching soil doesn't transmit it. That being said, birds raised on wire usually don't contract coccidiosis.

    MG transmission is from bird to bird via respiratory secretions, or indirectly from contaminated dust. It can live up to weeks depending on what kind of material is present: longer in chicken manure or eggs, shorter on clean, dry surfaces. Therefore, removing infected birds and cleaning well, followed by a “down” time for the chicken areas of at least a few weeks, is suggested.
    Unsanitary water founts is one way it is spread. It can spread by air or wild birds from farm to farm.
     

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