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color genetic info wanted on Lavanders

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by iajewel, May 17, 2010.

  1. iajewel

    iajewel Songster

    Oct 22, 2008
    Corning IA
    The lavender color is often times called "self blue" to me, self describes any color that is solid, no splash etc, and is the only color on an extended pedigree and is dominate for that color. EX a self black rabbit is a solid black rabbit that will not produce any other color in its offspring but black or blue ( the dilute of black)
    So where did the lavs come from genetically? and how are they self blue?
  2. bacres

    bacres Songster

    Mar 13, 2010
    East Pennsylvania
    Self = Breeds True.

    The blue color does not breed true you get Black, Blue, and Splash from a Blue Blue crossing. When breeding a Lavender to a Lavender it will breed true. So Self Blue because it is a blueish color but it breeds true. I do not like the name Self Blue it should be called Lavender.
  3. jimnjay

    jimnjay Songster

    Jan 11, 2007
    Bryant Alabama
    IN Poultry, we have what is called Andalusian blue, which does not breed true, combinations will produce, black, blue or splash. Lavender or Self Blue in Poultry is a Recessive color that will breed true when bred with another Lavender bird. I can't answer your question as to the origin. Lavender is a lighten blue than the Andalusian in most cases and does act an a dilute when bred with other colors.
  4. iajewel

    iajewel Songster

    Oct 22, 2008
    Corning IA
    I agree that self blue seems to be inappropriate for that color. I think in the UK they call it powder blue or something like that. Self Lavender seems to be more the truth I agree with you..

    How did the lavender color develop? was it blues bred to blues?
  5. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

    Jan 4, 2009
    Tempe, Arizona
    Both definitions are correct. The term self is used both ways.

    APA and ABA both call lavender "self-blue." It actually meets both definitions: it breeds true and it is one uniform colour.

    Extended black (E) meets both definitions also, except that to be completely black additional melanizing genes are also needed. As a dominant gene, if E is present in only one copy and paired with another bird who also carries only one copy of E, about 25% of the offspring will not inherit E from either parent.

    Blue is incompletely dominant; while it breeds PREDICTABLY, it does not "breed true" in always giving the same outcome. Splash breeds true. While the various combinations of the blue gene are typically called blue/black/splash, from a technical sense that is not correct. It should be blue/not-blue/splash. Not-blue does not always equate with black.

    Lavender (lav) is recessive. It is not a leaky gene; if a bird shows lavender, is carries two copies. A bird with one copy cannot be visually distinguished from one that has no copies. If two lavenders are bred together, the outcome is always lavender.

    All of that said, with any of these, other genes carried by each parent bird can combine and give various patterns or additional dilutions or restrictions to the resulting offspring.
  6. Chris09

    Chris09 Circle (M) Ranch

    Jun 1, 2009
    Self Blue -

    Self Color:
    A single uniform color throughout the plumage, as in White and Black varieties.

    (with that being said the Hackle Feathers, Saddle Feathers, Tale Feathers and Wing Bow should be the shade of Blue as the body and there should be NO dark lacing on the feathers..)
    Here is a picture of a Self Blue (Not My Bird)
    Genetically the Self Blue is a "Blue Splash" with the Lavender gene added.
    It would look something like this -
    Brown Red (gold s) + recessive black = Black
    Black + Blue = Blue
    Blue + Blue = Splash
    Splash + Lavender = Self Blue

    Lavender + Modeled = Pearl

  7. iajewel

    iajewel Songster

    Oct 22, 2008
    Corning IA
    WOW thanks..
    So is Lavender a double diluted blue? I guess that would make it a triple diluted black LOL.. or is it it's own critter?
  8. Henk69

    Henk69 Songster

    Nov 29, 2008
    Groesbeek Netherlands
    Ignore at will:

    Andalusian blue tends to be laced and darker hackled.
    Lavender tends to be an evenly spread color.
    That is the third reason to call it "self".

    (1=uniform, 2=truebreeding, 3=equalized)

    The irony is that andalusian blue can also be made unlaced and evenly spread.
  9. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

    Jan 4, 2009
    Tempe, Arizona
    Quote:Its own critter [​IMG]

    Lavender dilutes both black and red pigment; the gene is recessive and not leaky. A bird must be lav/lav for the gene to have any affect
    Blue dilutes black pigment; the gene is incompletely dominant--one copy produces a blue bird; two copies produce a splash bird.
  10. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

    Jan 4, 2009
    Tempe, Arizona
    Quote:modeled or mottled?

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