Columbian Genes

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by SunnySideUpGUAM, Feb 20, 2017.

  1. SunnySideUpGUAM

    SunnySideUpGUAM Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Hey BYC,

    What is the relation between columbian gene and silver gene? Are all columbian birds silver?
     
  2. 3riverschick

    3riverschick Poultry Lit Chaser

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    No they are not all Silver. in fact, very few Columbian birds are Silver based. The Columbian gene forces black to the body extremeties , esp. if the bird is carrying 2 copies of Co. Like the Light Sussex. The Black Tailed Buff is an example of a gold bird when caries the Co gene. It has a Black neck and black tail and probably some black in the wing feathers. The only 3 breeds I know of which are Silver Columbians and based on the eWh allele are Light Sussex, Columbian Marans ,and Black Tailed Jap bantams. Silver Columbians which are basd on the eb ( Brown) alelle, there are a bunch... the Light Brahma comes to mind.
    Tho there are variations, basically when you see a one color bird which has a black neck ( hackle) and a black tail, some black in the wings, then you are looking at a Columbian bird. That's a very general statement but is a good broad guideline. So , usually, your Columbian birds will be either white, with the usual black markings or some shade of red from buff to extrenely dark red or brown with the same markings.
    Best,
    Karen
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  3. SunnySideUpGUAM

    SunnySideUpGUAM Chillin' With My Peeps

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    So how do you classify columbian wyandottes, columbian plymouth rocks, and Delawares? I thought they were silver since they make red sexlinks with RIRs. I know Dels arent columbian but to a newbie like me they look so similar its easy to put them in the same category.
     
  4. SunnySideUpGUAM

    SunnySideUpGUAM Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Can you see the difference between black and white Columbians and silver Columbians in chicks and adults?
     
  5. 3riverschick

    3riverschick Poultry Lit Chaser

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    Hi,
    A Delaware is the same as a Light Sussex, only with the barred gene added. eWh/eWh Co/Co S/S Br/Bra
    Both the Wyandotte and the Plymouth Rock as not bbased on the eWh ( Wheaten) allele.
    Best,
    Karen
     
  6. 3riverschick

    3riverschick Poultry Lit Chaser

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    I believe so. If the Black and White Columbian are based on the eb ( Brown) allele their chick down and possibly their adult feathering will differ from the eWh based Silver Columbian. In chicks, the eWh Silver Columbian will be pure yellow. I have found in some cases there is a darker hue of yellow to the nape of the neck in the eWh Silver Columbian Light Sussex. These chicks grow out to have scattered light grey feathers on their withers. Research leads me to believe this is because, when the mating was done , too much black on the wing feathers was taken into consideration. This allowed the black to bleed thru on the withers. This is entirely different from eb based Silver Columbian where the scattering of black or grey feathers in the white parts is due to incorrect balancing of the hues in the undercolor. In eWh Silver Columbians the undercolor should be white t the skin. In eb based White Columbians the undercolor will have one or more hues in it. These hues must be balanced in the right ratios of color, or black or grey feathers will show up in the white parts of the bird.
    If you use http://www.ixquick.com and click on "Images" you can type in the breed and "chick down" and get pics for comparison.
    If you cannot tell the allele the variety is based on, lift up the outer feathers and check for color in the underfeathers. If they are White to the skin, it should be an eWh based bird. If there are any hues of color to the undercolor then the bird is eb or some other color of allele based.
    Best,
    Karen
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  7. SunnySideUpGUAM

    SunnySideUpGUAM Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Im really just trying to see if I can make silver columbian rocks with the breeds i have. I wanted to buy some but its been difficult to find someone who can ship to Guam. So I went crazy on the chicken calculator until I got to something columbian and selected them and went on test mating only to find out that it needs to be based on a certain allele. And i think i need to learn how to read those things on the chicken calculator.

    thanks for all the advise if you know how i can breed my way to a columbian rock please let me know!!!
     
  8. GaryDean26

    GaryDean26 Chicken Czar Premium Member

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    I got 15 Columbian Rocks from Cackle Hatchery Last month.

    The first Columbian Birds I had were from a grab back of Marans Eggs that I got about 6 years ago. The breeder was getting Black-Tailed Buff Marans out of her Wheaten Pen so the line was not pure bred. I too noticed the darker color at the back color of the neck on some of the yellow chicks that hatched. All the ones with the darker color proved to be incomplete for the columbian gene. That may be what you observed in your silver columbians too. 3riverschick I know that you took a stab at raising Black Tailed Buff Marans for a short time and found that most people who claim to have BTB in the USA have sports from wheaten lines that are NOT pure breed and not breeding true. No one has taken time to clean up those lines. The people that I know who show BTB (and the people I got my mystery Marans eggs from) mix there Wheaten and BTB together and show based on Phenotype with not effort to clean up the Genotype because they don't know to genetics of what to look for to work towards true breeding lines.

    I also worked with Maraduna Baque Hens. 3riverschick I know you worked with that breed too for a spell. The Basque Hens were barn yard mixes and they too had some columbian genes in them. They likewise had the dark collar when they had a single columbian gene. I neve got any with that were complete for columbian.

    So..I was really suprised to see the chick down of the Columbian Rocks when they arrived. I was expecting them to be silver wheatons with the columbian restricter. They were all had the yellow helmet heads and a wide range of body colors. Some were nearly yellow, some had a smoky body color and some had a body color that was nearly black.

    We didn't get these to breed, but they are straight run so if I like they I may keep a Trio just for fun. I also want to show them at the Country fair since they will be the first thing that we have raised that are actually in the APA book and can actually win something. So I am trying to learn as much as I can about them. Any idea on the nearly yellow to nearly black body color on the chick down? Do you know what is correct or what color flaws I should watch for?
     

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