comparing Copper Black Marans cockerels

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by onthespot, Jul 15, 2008.

  1. onthespot

    onthespot Deluxe Dozens

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    I was wondering how BYC'ers would compare these two cockerels, in the photos about the same ages, three and a half months old, both very different looking coloring.
    Could you critique them for me? They are Copper Black Marans.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  2. tazcat70

    tazcat70 I must be crazy!

    I have no idea which is better for the breed standard, but the difference is dramatic!
     
  3. Oblio13

    Oblio13 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    There is no American standard yet, but here's the draft that the Marans club is proposing:



    Draft Color Standard for Brown Red Marans (Black Copper)

    Disqualifications

    White in ear-lobes. Two or more white feathers in plumage.

    Color of Male

    Comb, Face, Wattles and Ear-Lobes: Bright red.

    Beak: Dark Horn.

    Eyes: Reddish bay.

    Shanks and Toes: Dark Slate, bottom of feet pinkish white.

    Head: Lustrous deep orange.

    Neck: Hackle—Lustrous deep orange with narrow dark stripe through the middle of each feather terminating in a point near its lower extremity. Front of neck—Black with narrow lacing of deep orange.

    Back: Back—Lustrous deep orange. Saddle—same as hackle.

    Tail: Main Tail—Black with slight luster, Sickles and Coverts—Lustrous beetle green black.

    Wings: Shoulders and Fronts—Black. Bows—Lustrous deep orange to match back.
    Coverts—Lustrous black.
    Primaries—Black.
    Secondaries—Black, with exposed portion forming wing bay, with slight luster.

    Breast: Upper breast, black with narrow lacing of deep orange. Lower breast—black.

    Body and Stern: Black.

    Legs: Lower Thighs—Black
    Shanks and Toes—Black.
     
  4. onthespot

    onthespot Deluxe Dozens

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    Thanks Oblio! That info was very concise, easy to read and very easy to apply with the photos right there. Based on that, Lightning and Chester are the two extremes (undesireable) of too dark, and too brown. I have one more roo that is my "middle guy" and I think he most closely fits the standard you posted. He is also the most laid back of the three. He also is the one that hatched out of the darkest egg I received from bayhorsebonne... I'm thinking he might be my #1 roo, whereas before I thought of him as my boring backup guy. Thanks so much for the help. I want to do my best to breed to the standard in every way, not just for "pretty birds" of my own design, and the darkest eggs, and let the other characteristics fall by the wayside.
    Here is "Middle Roo"

    [​IMG]
     
  5. jossanne

    jossanne Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jul 11, 2008
    Gila, New Mexico
    I know nothing about Marans, except that I want some, but I think your middle roo is the prettiest! Nice to know he most closely fits the breed standard.
     
  6. MaransGuy

    MaransGuy Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Spot,

    The last photo you posted does look to be the best out of the three. Here is a picture of one of my cockerels at 3 months old:

    [​IMG]

    And what he looked like at 6 months old:

    [​IMG]

    I think the first cockerel will finish out a bit light (not enough copper) and the second one already had far too much brown on the wings. That last one looks like he will mature nicely. It is always best to hold them as long as possible before deciding on who is your best bird as they change so much between 3 and six months it will amaze you.

    Richard
     
  7. speckledhen

    speckledhen Intentional Solitude Premium Member

    I agree with Richard. From the proposed standards, the last one would be your best bet. Richard, your guy is a handsome devil!
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2008
  8. onthespot

    onthespot Deluxe Dozens

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    Richard, thank you so much for posting with photos. It is just AMAZING the difference in that little roo in three months. The photo of him at six months is just stunning!

    My too brown cockerel, I like the overall look of his body, even if his plumage is off colored. Another thing he has going for him is ZERO excess white, not a hint of white or partial white feathering anywhere. His legs are very straight, not cow-hocked at all. I know his color is way off, but I believe I will keep him to the side. I think there may be some hens he can help in the future. If not, he can always be culled later. I have two BCM cockerels that I just cannot hardly stand to look at right now, but I am growing out all five, which some might think is overkill if all I have is three pullets, but with only having three pullets, I feel it is even more important to have the best possible roo or roos to choose from. I prefer a steep and vigorous learning curve compared to just bumbling along for years half fast. [​IMG]
    Thanks all for your input and keep those photos coming! There is a lot of interest in this breed, and a lot of money changing hands and the more individuals get educated and know their breed, the fewer bad lines will be perpetuated.
     
  9. MaransGuy

    MaransGuy Chillin' With My Peeps

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    If you have the space then, by all means, grow them all out. Their full body posture doesn't really develop right away. As you can, see my 3 month old pic looks like a string-bean! I was worried that he would never look right. If it were me, I would pick the rooster that shows the least amount of faults and came from the darkest egg to use for breeding. Feather faults are typically easier to fix than lost egg color. Yes, there is a lot of money changing hands right now for the Marans. I am afraid that they are going to go the same way Cocker Spaniels and Rotweilers did. Bred out to unrecognizable mutts just to satisfy the tremendous demand. My advice is to keep plugging away at fixing your line and improving it as best as you can. People who truly want quality will seek it out and not be so easily parted with their cash.

    Richard
     
  10. Arklady

    Arklady Chillin' With My Peeps

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    In a relaxed state the body of the marans male and female need to be boxy with the back flat parallel with the ground with the tail at a 45º angle. Therefore if you breed a cockrel to a hen who does not have the correct tail alignment you are breeding a huge disqualification into your flock. The colors can be worked out at the same time but the tail MUST be 45º angle to the body. Also in the French Marans website they have a template for how the alignment of the birds should look and the American Marans club is trying to adhere to the standards set down by the French.

    Birchen Roo

    [​IMG]

    That is the direct color opposite to the Black Copper, as you can see he in a relaxed state his back is parallel to the ground with the tail at 45º in alignment with the Standard set by the French. I personally have difficulties with Squirrel tail a huge genetic disqualification but I am going to have to work on it when I have enough subjects to work with.

    However, I am willing to admit I need outside blood that does not have this issue so that I might try and breed it out before I am too much further along in my breeding program. Though having BC's are nice I would rather have a Cuckoo to work on the squirrel tail than a BC at this time.

    So I would be willing to get eggs from someone who does not have this issue.

    Feel free to contact me about the Marans, I spent 5 years studying them before getting them and I am in my 3rd breeding season just now.

    Though there is much to learn and I encourage you all to check out the French Marans site.

    Arklady

    edited for typos
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2008

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