completely confused about ventilation

[Dhkoenig]

Hi All. I just read the winterizing article that came on today and it says the same thing that I know to be true from so many other sources, that you need 1 square foot of ventilation per chicken. I have a coop that is designed to hold up to 12 chickens ( built from plans) and I have seven. The dimensions of the coop are 5 feet wide, 6 feet deep and 6 foot 11 tall. I will attach a photo. It has two windows and those are just lower than the high perch and right in line with the other three perches. So opening those would cause them to have a breeze/draft since they are not higher than the chickens. Here is my question. I do not think I have an unusually small coop but if I had 7 square feet of ventilation, that would barely leave any coop! Plus if I had to put all of those above where they perch I literally would pretty much have to either build my coop 12 feet high (impossible where I live) or basically just cut the roof off! LOL. Can someone explain to me how I am supposed to put 7 square feet of ventilation into my 5x6 coop? Even if I only had four chickens I still wouldn't have enough coop to have 4 square feet of ventilation. Am I the only person who has 7 chickens sleeping in a coop this size? Why do all the coops this size say that they fit up to 12 chickens comfortable? Do all of you that have 7 chickens have a coop big enough for 7 square feet of ventilation over their heads? Help!

 

[3KillerBs]

Those "Amish" style coops are much better than the majority of coops you see, but they are usually short on ventilation, have the ventilation in the wrong place, and the plans misrepresent how many chickens actually fit appropriately as badly as the prefabs do.

I have a coop that is designed to hold up to 12 chickens ( built from plans) and I have seven. The dimensions of the coop are 5 feet wide, 6 feet deep and 6 foot 11 tall.

Do those dimensions include the nests? If yes, you don't have a 5x6, 30 square foot, 7-hen, coop, you have a 4x6, 6-hen coop. That little difference may or may not make a difference, but it's important to know -- especially if the food and water is taking up space in the coop instead of being out in the run.

You don't need a square foot of ventilation per hen. It's complete nonsense as it seems you've discovered.

Having a general guideline is NOT nonsense. It's an important data point from which the chicken-keeper can use local knowledge and observed conditions to adapt the coop to his specific needs -- the goal (for those not in the most severe of sub-arctic conditions), being to equalize the temperature and humidity inside and outside the coop.

For example, in my climate a single square foot per bird is only adequate summer ventilation in the coop with the Monitor Roof and then only if the coop is located in the shade. I discovered this spring that I need at least double or triple that recommended minimum to keep an unshaded coop with a flat roof under 100F on days over 90F.

There's no substitute for actually measuring conditions, but the guidelines are a useful starting point.

The four square feet per hen is also unrealistic and often not required.

What's "unrealistic" about providing a flock with adequate housing? I submit that if a person can't afford to give their chickens adequate space -- either on account of building costs or lack of available space on the property -- they need to rethink their plan for keeping chickens.

Your point about 100% free range is valid, but expecting the average backyard chicken keeper to be able to 100% free-range their chickens over a generous area and to never have to leave them in the coop after dawn or shut them up before dusk and to never experience weather conditions that make the chickens unwilling to leave their coop is considerably less realistic than advising them to build spacious housing.

Of course the Usual Guidelines are *guidelines*, not hard-and-fast rules. @Ridgerunner's excellent article on the subject should be mandatory reading for all new chicken keepers: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/how-much-room-do-chickens-need.66180/

However, though I admit that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data", in years of reading these forums (even when I was not actively keeping chickens), I am convinced that the vast majority of health, behavioral, and sanitation problems that people seek help for here are due to over-crowding and/or inadequate ventilation.

There is nothing that is made worse by ensuring plenty of fresh air and elbow room.

 

[igorsMistress]

If you put vents up high just under the roof, 6” high and 5’ long you’ll have ten square feet of ventilation. Easy.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

So...

(not my photo - but its so damned good I saved it) This is how under-eave ventilation is supposed to work. Its passive, it turns over air very effectively, it creates no breeze on the bars, and its weather sheltered.

Windows in coops exist primariliy because they satisfy HUMAN aesthetics. NOT because they are the optimum design for your chickens.

A 5' x 6' coop is cramped for a dozen chickens, and will promote (note, not guarantee) misbehavior. It also offers limited roost opportunity and at that height, limited options in ensureing the nesting boxes are below the level of the roosting bars (to discourage roosting in the nests). Otoh, it has 22 linear feet of perimeter - meaning a mere 7" slot around the coop provides at least 12' sq ft of 24/7/365 free ventilation without a single window. Not that that's optimum design - its not - but it is a possibility.

From my goat house / second chicken shelter

 

[ChickenLeg]

If I was concerned about ventiliation I would remove your top roost, then cut out a triangle on both ends. If your windows open from the top Id crack them a few inches for airflow, and possibly cut out a 6in wide vent across the opposite side of windows. Cheers

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Final thought before I step off - something I say a lot, and not just about chickens.

"Abundance is a Social Lubricant".

If you can afford to do it, offer more. More space in the coop. More space in the run. More feed stations. More water stations. More clutter for enrichment/entertainment. More options.

All of those things will tend to reduce frequency and severity of stress, conflict, and injury when disagreements inevitably arise. Ultimately making your job as a keeper of chickens easier, and a failure of any component of your chicken keeping system less catastrophic.

 

[Silexian]

Indeed. I found many times this past year that having over-sized facilities made potential problems fade away and allowed me to take advantage of unexpected opportunities.



While height is irrelevant to the number of chickens that can be kept in a coop -- because chickens don't stack for storage -- that 7-foot height is so very much BETTER than a short coop because it gives you the ability to put in that great ventilation up high where it belongs.

Indeed. I found many times this past year that having over-sized facilities made potential problems fade away and allowed me to take advantage of unexpected opportunities.



While height is irrelevant to the number of chickens that can be kept in a coop -- because chickens don't stack for storage -- that 7-foot height is so very much BETTER than a short coop because it gives you the ability to put in that great ventilation up high where it belongs.

I agree that height does not increase the number of chickens that a coop can hold. For myself the height of my coops is twofold. I believe it gives me more options for better ventilation. Also being in my fifties and on the taller side. I like being able to stand up in my coops. Which makes taking care of my chickens and doing maintenance more enjoyable.

 

[Sueby]

I have a similar Amish type coop & here's what I've done for ventilation (which is what most have suggested for you anyway):

I leave the windows open & during the winter, stuff them with HVAC filter.


I opened up the eaves with a sawzall & put HC over them.


My coop also has a ridge vent, I clear the snow off it or it's useless. It also has a metal roof & I've never had a condensation issue so I know the ventilation is doing its job well.

You should be able to get some good ventilation in there relatively easily.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Your point about 100% free range is valid, but expecting the average backyard chicken keeper to be able to 100% free-range their chickens over a generous area and to never have to leave them in the coop after dawn or shut them up before dusk and to never experience weather conditions that make the chickens unwilling to leave their coop is considerably less realistic than advising them to build spacious housing.

Echoing

Apart from feral chickens in Hawaii (which, I would argue, aren't "kept"), its virtually impossible to have *productive* 100% free range birds. Yes, you might incidentally find eggs or get meat from a culling, but compared to even minimal husbandry, its simply not efficient. I say that as someone in one of the better growing zones (8a) of this country, with lots of acres for my birds. Can I significantly cut my feed costs??? ABSOLUTELY. Do I get good growth, good flavor, and find near 100% of the eggs they lay? also, Absolutely. Even then, if feed efficiency were my only concern, a CornishX can be raised to "market weight" faster and cheaper not free ranging the bird.

Predator losses - even in a protected run - are real, and true free ranging requires more space than one can practically net. Electric fences do not stop hawks.

I personally find it a bit odd that a poster might suggest both that 4 sq ft/bird is excessive coop space, 1 sq ft/bird ventilation is unneeded, and "free range" as a reasonable approach for the majority of back yard chicken keepers when so many threads here on BYC involve posters whose combined run/coop space is less than 8 sq ft/bird.

Most posters don't have 5+ acres of "back yard". Most posters have seasonal, or protracted, extreme weather events when free ranging isn't appropriate, as well. Many posters are unwilling to simply accept the reality of occasional predator losses. Those are times when that coop space is required - whether it be a hurricane, torrential rains, persistent and heavy snows, a derecho moving across the plains, or even shade against the pounding TX, AZ, NV, etc sun, or even the neighbor's cat/dog disrespecting your property rights...

If there were a "one size fits all" solution, the majority of us would be using it.

Instead, there are "thumb rules" accumulating the collective wisdom of general conditions demonstrated over time to provide consistent and satisfactory results. They are a good starting point from which individual alterations can be made in response to individual conditions.

 

[Folly's place]

Yes on all counts!
My birds were locked in for ten days recently because of a hawk visitation. After two whole days back outside, yesterday I saw an ailing goldfinch at one of my wild bird feeders (none of which are available to the chickens) so the flock will be locked down again, for maybe three weeks this time. Our wild bird feeders, and the neighbors who also feed wild birds, are all now inside and unavailable. I'm hoping this bird hit our front window, not showing the gooey eyes or face that is a sure sign or MG, but still must be careful.
Winter is coming, and the chickens hate snow, so they will be unwilling to go out, sometimes for a week or longer.
They have a coop/ roofed run combination, safe and out of the rain and snow.
Mary