Constipation + Possible No Shell Egg

Aerliss

Songster
Apr 21, 2018
277
471
177
Edinburgh
I got four 12-18 month old ex-commercial hens on Saturday. See thread; https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/the-day-has-arrived-i-got-my-rescue-girls.1247926/

They had all been vet checked (though one has slightly long claws that should have been picked up by a half competent vet receptionist, never mind a vet), and had been with the rescue for six days.

All the girls are eating, drinking and enjoying their free range time, but at about 7:30pm on Sunday Michonne was having trouble pooping. She'd come in with a very poopy butt. They all had, but hers was particularly bad. She laid an egg by 10am, which was either slightly smeared with blood, or a shell-less egg which had either broken on the way out or had been eaten. I know one of these was hers because I was sitting outside the coop when two eggs were laid, and so know who they belonged to.

I have absolutely no experience with what a chicken butt should look like up close except once it's butchered and packaged (so now I finally know which end of the Sunday roast the parson's nose is), but it seems to be a lot more pronounced than the others, and the outside edges looked a little blue, or bruised. I gave her a warm bath and a gentle massage, and had a peek inside as best I could. I'm unsure how much handling can be done without causing problems. I couldn't see anything untoward but again, didn't probe too deep. Everything seemed soft from the outside, and any lumps or bumps felt like bone, and had matching lumps and bumps on the other side.

I towel dried her and put her into the coop as it was pretty dark (Daryl had already taken herself off to bed). After dark I checked in on her and found her asleep, standing up, on the floor of the coop (no one was on the perch... two in the nesting boxes and one on a ramp). The temp at should height is 15c, and I placed a peck-resistant snugglesafe heat pad next to her as she's not totally dry.

She's got food in her crop, and was scratching about for bugs right before I scooped her up for a bath. The only symptom until I looked closely, was that she was straining to poop and nothing was coming out. I must have watched her for about 40 minutes, saw her strain three times.

Oh, this morning the overnight poops were 3/4 firm, and 1/4 liquid and scatter gun. No blood or wrigglies, just very wet. So I'm assuming that might be hers, although Carol (who laid a perfect, clean egg at 5pm and has the fluffiest butt, and nicest feathers) has had some rather orange poop today.

Any advice on what to do if she hasn't pooped tomorrow would be appreciated. I HAVE to go to work at 9am and finish at 5pm, but the chicken vet is open until 7pm, if I do need to go... though I'd rather not add more stress to her week and get a vet bill right off the starting blocks!
 
She passed a lot of poop over night. Her crop wasn't completely empty when I got up, but she was up and at the waterer so she might have eaten. She seems in good spirits.

I'll check out everyone's butt tonight so I can see what a healthy one looks like, give her another bath.

Any other tips? I don't think she's egg bound, at least not yet. Just stressed. TMI; my digestive system shuts down when I've had stressful travel, so I know how she's feeling!
 
She'd slightly prolapsed tonight. Took her up for a bath and I think I know what's happened.

The no shell egg (please have been a no shell) broke inside her, and while most of the yolk and the membrane came out, the white is still in there. What I thought was faeces stuck around the vent appears to be congealed egg white and it had cemented everything shut.

I took a pair of tweezers to it and very gently picked off as much as I could. Got a little flesh along with it, but she pooped some and the prolapse went back in of its own accord once a lot of the white had been removed. White liquid, sometimes a little yellow, occasionally oozes out of the vent.

She's currently in the bathroom keeping warm and drying off. She's got food, water, and a pet carrier to sleep in. Once she's asleep I'll pop her back in the coop, likely just in a nest box so she can keep warm.
 
Lots of poop, vent looking almost normal, though she does seem to still have to strain a little. Crop not completely empty, but much more empty than the night before.

I've put blue food dye all around the vent and the bare skin so no one is tempted to peck at it. They had clearly had a go the day before. She now looks ridiculous.

What I'm mainly worried about is if the egg white has congealed inside the oviduct and she'll have difficulty laying her next egg. Not a lot I can do though.
 
Hi
I'm sorry you haven't had any replies until now. Well done with her treatment so far.
Shell less eggs are really hard for chickens to pass and it takes a lot out of them and sometimes it is not just one but there can be a series of them or a normal egg followed by a shell less one shortly afterwards. If 2 yolks are released from the ovary at almost the same time, the shell gland only has enough nutrients to form a shell around one, or the shell gland is defective or the bird is not getting enough nutrients (calcium usually) to form a shell or the bird has been stressed and an egg has skipped the shell gland. Unfortunately old ex commercial hens are more prone to these reproductive ailments.
The first thing to do would be to give her a direct dose of calcium daily.... calcium is obviously needed to make strong shells but I believe it also helps with muscle contractions. Human calcium supplement tablets are fine to use and they can be crushed and sprinkled on some scrambled egg or I believe mixed with a little peanut butter makes it very acceptable.
If her and any of the other hens' butt feathers are getting soiled regularly, you can trim them back with scissors and coat the skin with a salve or Vaseline to sooth it and prevent further sticking, rather than having to do regular butt washes. Poopy butts can get sore and attract flies and before you know it you have an ugly fly strike situation :sick. If you do wash them, you can use a hair drier to blow them dry rather than put them back outside wet, especially if it is not overly warm and they are feeling under the weather themselves.
My feeling is that a healthy hen should not have a poopy butt. Usually the problem arises when they have abdominal swelling or are carrying surplus fat and the area below the vent is padded out and the poop is no longer able to drop cleanly without snagging on feathers. Diet and exercise is important both to keep egg shell quality good and prevent build up of fatty abdominal deposits..... these latter can also lead to other problems like prolapse and reproductive malfunctions like internal laying. I'm assuming you are giving them a laying ration? What type is it and do you feed any other treats. I appreciate that you have only just got these birds, so cannot be responsible for any previous dietary imbalance..... just something else to be aware of.

Good luck with your girl. Hopefully she will lay a normal egg soon and this incident will just be a minor blip.:fl
 
Hi
I'm sorry you haven't had any replies until now.

No worries. I figure most folks have been focusing on the high priority posts, like that amazing wing amputation, and the poor chicks being cannibalised by their mama.

Also it's been a holiday weekend in the US, right? Here too!

Shell less eggs are really hard for chickens to pass and it takes a lot out of them

Huh, never occurred to me it would be difficult, but I guess it's like when we have soft bready poop and it won't go anywhere. Poor girl.

and sometimes it is not just one but there can be a series of them or a normal egg followed by a shell less one shortly afterwards.

Eugh, do not want.

Unfortunately old ex commercial hens are more prone to these reproductive ailments.

I figured I'd have to deal with these issues at some point, just not the first day. Agghh :(

The first thing to do would be to give her a direct dose of calcium daily.... calcium is obviously needed to make strong shells but I believe it also helps with muscle contractions.

Aye, it's used in the nerves, and is the reason for rigor mortis... at least that's what I remember from biology class. The weird stuff...

Human calcium supplement tablets are fine to use and they can be crushed and sprinkled on some scrambled egg or I believe mixed with a little peanut butter makes it very acceptable.

I used to keep giant snails, and have a bottle of liquid calc in the cupboard. After reading up I added it to one of their waterers this morning. They don't actually make it anymore so I can't right now give you the ingredient list, but nothing in it seemed untoward. I gave it at the suggested dose for reptiles.

If her and any of the other hens' butt feathers are getting soiled regularly, you can trim them back with scissors and coat the skin with a salve or Vaseline to sooth it and prevent further sticking, rather than having to do regular butt washes.

Everyone else is looking nice and clean now. I think it was just stress induced loose stool, and possibly from pooping in the carriers. It's just Michonne's now. But what I thought was poop turned out to be egg white. It's definitely not poop at any rate. They've all got, for the most part, nice firm poops. Even Michonne.

Poopy butts can get sore and attract flies and before you know it you have an ugly fly strike situation :sick.

Eugh, yeah. My rescue buns have been overweight, arthritic, or had gut issues requiring regular cleaning. I'm a dab hand at butt checks!

If you do wash them, you can use a hair drier to blow them dry rather than put them back outside wet, especially if it is not overly warm and they are feeling under the weather themselves.

I couldn't find the hair dryer (half of our belongings are still packed from moving house two bleeding years ago), so I got out our emergency blow heater last night. Set it on low and popped her down a little away from it. She was very happy.

I'm assuming you are giving them a laying ration? What type is it and do you feed any other treats.

They're on Allen & Page layer feed. I had some fermented ready for them, and they love it, but I also have dry out for them at all times.

I wanted to introduce new foods slowly, and it's illegal to feed them table scraps in the UK, so they've had a handful of chopped kale and a small carrot between them from the garden. Also a small florette of broccoli, but they didn't touch it. This morning they had some bell pepper and lettuce, but they were way more interested in the compost.

They've ranged, so lots of grass and clover. Plus a feast of bugs from the compost heap.

Along with the liquid calcium left over from my giant snails I had a tonne of cuttle bone. I did some searching on here and the consensus was that it was a perfectly acceptable source of calcium for chickens. I broke it up into manageable pieces but they've mostly turned their beaks up at it. They much prefer the egg shells I've been giving back to them (not sure where the law stands on that... ahem).

I appreciate that you have only just got these birds, so cannot be responsible for any previous dietary imbalance..... just something else to be aware of.

As they're not much interested in the cuttle I've ordered some oyster shell.

Good luck with your girl. Hopefully she will lay a normal egg soon and this incident will just be a minor blip.:fl

Oh God, I hope so. I have an extra needs rabbit (had planned to clean her scent glands out last night, but she had to wait), I can't keep up this level of care on her and a chicken permanently :(

Thanks for all the advice!
 
Sounds like you already had all my suggestions covered. Be aware that greens like kale, spinach and broccoli can inhibit the uptake of calcium, so it might be a good idea to stop those until this girl is hopefully back to laying normal eggs. I've never has a problem with my hens eating these things and shell quality but I am assured there is science behind it.
I'm also in the UK not far south of you in County Durham. Your mention of the bank holiday tipped me off.... I'm not sure our cousins across the pond call them bank holidays!
Sounds like you have a lovely tasks lined up :sick although I imagine cleaning a rabbits scent glands is probably better than a dogs. I'll trade you a horse that is in desperate need of a sheath wash..... thankfully he is very good about having it done and mostly quite enjoys it. :rolleyes:
 
I will definitely let you keep the sheath wash. Wow. Though The Wub hates it and frequently kicks me in the face...

Slight update; I got three eggs today (reminder; four birds). A couple of them were rather blue, but I think Michonne had just gone into the box, and maybe tried? She passed a very gross bit of hard orange gunk, like the remnants of a membrane tonight (at least I assume it was her, don't think it would be any of the others).

However, now Daryl seems under the weather! Eugh. She was making noises in the nest box this morning but didn't lay anything. I didn't feel an egg, so maybe she was just... checking the box out? This evening she was looking a bit ruffled, and wasn't much interested in pottering about like the other three and her crop seemed fairly empty. However, she went nuts for the compost I put in the run an hour before sundown, so hopefully she got herself a bit more full.

I could just be being paranoid, in all honesty... but I have learnt that paranoia is a blessing when it comes to prey animal health.
 
Oh yes, the eggs. They were all in the same box. We have a favourite....

And one of her vent, pre food dye, in case of interest XD
IMG_20180529_184506134.jpg
IMG_20180528_201120177.jpg
 
kale, spinach and broccoli can inhibit the uptake of calcium, so it might be a good idea to stop those until this girl is hopefully back to laying normal eggs. I've never has a problem with my hens eating these things and shell quality but I am assured there is science behind it.

Spinach is an issue, as the oxylates inhibit calcium absorption (I can't remember how, but it works the same in snails and rabbits, so it's probably a chemical binding thing rather than a biological thing). Same goes for citrus and I THINK the onion family. But I've always thought of kale as a great source of calcium. In fact in the bunny world people recommend not feeding too much kale, as it can contribute to bladder sludge and stones. It's why I gave them some as a treat, thinking it might up their calcium intake a tiny bit. Oh dear.

I'll have to do some research because I am growing a TONNE of kale...

Oh man, there were old egg shells in the compost I gave to them. They went bonkers for them. And Maggie found an old snail shell. She had a good time with that.

They are so gross... I'm almost put off eating their eggs :D
 

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