Continual parasite issues-free range kinda

[JennyLeeF]

Edit: if you've got a free range flock, over 2 years old,, with with same chickens.. please tell me if you have these issues and if not, what you do. While advice from people is great, it's not always helpful if advice comes from someone who has new chickens or doesn't free range.

I live in an acre. 1/4 of that is fenced for the chickens. It's part grass, part dirt, has couple trees and their coops.

They keep getting parasites. 1st it was mycoplasma, which they probably came with. 2nd it was lung worm, then it was coccidiosis then more lung worm.

What in the ever loving hell is happening? They have so much space, good bugs and worms, good feed, fresh water and I clean coops on the reg.

What can I do differently?

 

[My Bagurks]

Either I’ve been very lucky or I am completely oblivious. I don’t think I’m oblivious though. Have you considered treating their free range area? There are lots of products for coop treating, sanitizing, and such. Maybe cage them up for a time and treat the area and the coop. Refresh everything and try a new bedding and diatomaceous earth?

 

[JennyLeeF]

Do you free range your birds?
How large is the area they free range?
How old are your current hens?
What breed do you have?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I live in an acre. 1/4 of that is fenced for the chickens. It's part grass, part dirt, has couple trees and their coops.

They keep getting parasites. 1st it was mycoplasma, which they probably came with. 2nd it was lung worm, then it was coccidiosis then more lung worm.

I free range right around 1 acre.sometimes subdivided between flocks of all ages from hatching egg to not more than 4 or 5 years before culling/harvesting though usually closer to 3.. and I do face parasites like lice and mites which I treat (birds and premises) and follow up treat (or complete the full cycle regarding antibiotics) to appropriately to break the life cycle according to directions.. which is sometimes brought back around by the wildlife in the area.. SO I check monthly and treat as needed.. Some seasons see more of certain things.. and many are weather dependent plus your soil type matters as well as your wild life load/migratory species.. in addition to your husbandry, stock density, and age of stock.. and of course starting with healthy birds in the first place matters and lets not discount genetics. As well as realizing sometimes there may be subconditions and this is how they are presenting.

I would question how the conditions are being diagnosed and treated.. If a full grown bird is getting coccidiosis on ground they should have natural resistance to then again I question underlying issues... which leads back to your original mycoplasma. which to me trumps all other "norms" of what people get.

The following brochure link describes some of the challenges inherent to MS/MG including the possibility of the need to constantly repeat treatment and also being more susceptible to other things..

https://www.fdacs.gov/content/download/77376/file/Mycoplasma-Brochure.pdf

What in the ever loving hell is happening?

Sounds like you may have gotten unlucky starting with ill birds in the first place.

I have seen suspected Marek's (limping), egg binding maybe twice, vent prolapse once, and lash egg once, and maybe genetic not infection caused waterbelly (kidney failure) once.. Flock size ranging as large as 82 birds and perhaps 1000 total birds over approximately 10 years. Genetics, nutrition, AND bio-security matter. I consider myself VERY lucky compared to what I have read and it's the # 1 reason I don't get birds from unknown places.. Noting I've seen enough to know that despite my best efforts I understand I still could face anything at anytime.

During that space I also had to treat chicks twice for coccidiosis, once from going to pasture full time without any transition period or prior exposure the second time caused when I had multiple brooders and lost a heat bulb over the weekend with no stores open and had to crowd them together while being out of town the next day and not able to tend the water condition. So generally speaking things do happen but they aren't *usually* relentless.

I ask what is the "good feed".. or your feed routine including treats and supplements (aside from the already stated free range bugs etc). This is ONE of the things we can try to impact. Adding your general location to your profile can help folks make the most appropriate suggestions at a glance.. since different countries have different resources available. (stores, feeds, supplements etc)

Would there ever be a consideration of depopulating to clear things out (if that's even possible, some things yes, others no) and starting over with a fresh slate or is that out of the question?

Sounds like you and your birds have had a rough go of it.

I hope it will level off and your birds and adventure will start to thrive!

 

[aart]

They keep getting parasites. 1st it was mycoplasma, which they probably came with. 2nd it was lung worm, then it was coccidiosis then more lung worm.

The mycoplasma may have made them more susceptible to other parasites.

How did you determine they had lung worm....and how did you treat it?

Where in this world are you located?
Climate, and time of year, is almost always a factor.
Please add your general geographical location to your profile.
It's easy to do, and then it's always there!

 

[Shadrach]

I've got lots of questions.
How do you know your chickens have Lung Worm? I'm not saying this is the case here but some people call Gape Worm Lung Worm and they are different.

What did you treat the Lung Worm problem with?
How many chickens do you have on the quarter acre?
Can you post a picture of the quarter acre?

Did the chickens you got range outside on natural ground before you got them?
Were these chickens fed a medicated feed when they were chicks.
What have you used to combat the coccidia?

 

[Tankueray]

Technically, mine can roam 8 acres if they want, including a natural waterway that has migratory and native birds, and most other flavors of wildlife at it. I have two fenced areas that contain the housing, they jump the fence daily to forage. Because of the AI threat this year, I now have tractors and electronet, and 10x20 pens that can be relocated seasonally for babies and breeders during spring/summer (and house everyone during migration). If fall migration doesn't pose an HPAI threat, they will all be turned out to range together for the winter. My breeds are mostly non-native, endangered or threatened breeds that do not have the benefit of more than a century of being bred for hardiness in the USA like the RIR. The one native breed I keep was only created a little more than 40 years ago. Still, I have not had the illness that you have. The only time I've seen ascites was in a neighbor's very old, no longer laying, hen earlier this year.

I second @aart 's request for a location. Do you still have a small flock of around one dozen? Looking back through your posts, no, you should not have this much trouble with illness with a small flock. So that would lead back to an underlying condition like Marek's, the Mycoplasma they could have been born with, bad genetics, or food/environment...or Googliosis.

Other observations from your previous posts:

• Do you have a dedicated vet and are they prescribing you all these meds or are you finding information online and giving the meds yourself?
• You're feeding a lot of non-commercial feed items, do they have dedicated grit and not just the ground they're ranging on?
• You know the parasites/disease could have come from your quail, right? Have they been tested?
• Is the voiceless rooster patient zero for the lung worm? If so, how was that diagnosed because you never mention going to a third vet in your thread.
• Where/when did you get the 2 year old hen with ascites? The rest of your flock is only a little over a year.
• Any meds that you're giving the flock without confirmed parasites/disease are wiping their natural gut flora and affecting their immune systems. Don't deworm unless you have worms, don't give antibiotics unless something is diagnosed and that's the specific antibiotic for it, they are not one size fits all.
• Are you feeding/treating with anything containing copper or silver (some feeds or colloidal silver), or any other "natural remedies"?

Those of us who have hundreds of chickens are more likely to see different illnesses just due to volume and probability, those with small flocks generally don't unless they're bringing in new birds or visit places with other birds often and practice no biosecurity.

I do not feed medicated chick food, I do not treat for worms, thanks to the fire ants, I have not had to deal with parasites other than mosquitos (and thus fowlpox). Even though we are perpetually in drought, I make sure they have green forage, even if I sprout it myself in the winter. They also get regular gut flora boosts with yogurt or cheese, in addition to a feed mix that I formulated myself. Electrolytes in the water only during periods of 100+ degree days, and only in every other batch of water (no waterer is less than 5 gallons). Waterers cleaned regularly and disinfected with oxine or virkon, quat ammonia foot baths at every access gate and at the front of the house (where guests would park if I ever had guests). Oxine or Virkon foot baths when there are yard visitors (it degrades within hours, no use keeping it out all the time), plus booties. Anyone handling them gets full PPE, because they aren't too keen on a full hazmat decon scrub down, buck naked in a kiddie pool...maybe this is why I don't have guests?

My experience with coccidiosis and respiratory issues can mostly be attributed to my ducks. Coccidiosis tends to flare up when the weather is wet, or there's a wet environment. I had one chick coop come down with it when I did not notice that a waterer had a leak (I think 2-3 chicks total); a few teenagers got sick when my ducks decided to go in the big coop at night because of a frequently visiting bobcat. No ducks in coop and no wet environment, no cocci problems. (Of course, an infrequently cleaned coop or deep litter method problems will increase the likelihood of respiratory issues too, ducks aren't the only culprit, but since they're ground dwellers, they stir up a lot of stuff and like it wet too.) Cocci is naturally occurring and the adults should be acclimated to it and not get sick. They still can have it in their fecal samples, but it shouldn't be multiplying at a rate to affect them unless their natural defenses (the good gut flora) have been depleted.

Stress, like that of a predator or dogs/children chasing them all the time is usually what triggers illness, could be anything, because of an underlying disease that lowers the immune system.

You can easily have them tested for Marek's or Mycoplasma to rule those out. Marek's doesn't always show symptoms, but it's everywhere and a good possibility. If you're sure they have Mycoplasma, then that's your most likely culprit.

My other questions are:

• Where did they all come from? A hatchery or local breeder? Was that source an NPIP participant?
• What other animals have been on that land in the last decade?
• If no animals, has that land been used for any commercial or industrial purpose?
• Are the vets you're going to actually doing tests or are they just diagnosing based on symptoms? Do you have copies of those lab results?
• You're spending a lot of money on vets, while it's a good possibility that Mycoplasmosis is at the root of all this, have you considered that you might be suffering from Googliosis too?

Most people here (especially those that hatch) will tell you that they've all suffered a bout or two of helicopter parenting; it's okay, but you have to resist the urge. Like plants, more damage can be done by overloving your birds than by most diseases and predators. If it's you, that shouldn't be difficult to fix. If it's Mycoplasma, then you have some decisions to make, the first of which should be to speak with a knowledgeable vet or your state lab to see what cost and effort is involved in your options. If you're scared because you live in a reportable state, don't be; not all reportable diseases require depopulation, and most state authorities are much more attuned to the fears and feelings of backyard keepers than you think.

At the very least, you'll feel better not having to worry so much, because you'll know, and you'll have a plan to move forward. Good luck and prayers for you.

 

[JennyLeeF]

I've got lots of questions.
How do you know your chickens have Lung Worm? I'm not saying this is the case here but some people call Gape Worm Lung Worm and they are different.

What did you treat the Lung Worm problem with?
How many chickens do you have on the quarter acre?
Can you post a picture of the quarter acre?

Did the chickens you got range outside on natural ground before you got them?
Were these chickens fed a medicated feed when they were chicks.
What have you used to combat the coccidia?

I take my chickens to the local vet who swabbed their throat and looks at fecal samples. Fecal sample found

The mycoplasma may have made them more susceptible to other parasites.

How did you determine they had lung worm....and how did you treat it?

Where in this world are you located?
Climate, and time of year, is almost always a factor.
Please add your general geographical location to your profile.
It's easy to do, and then it's always there!
View attachment 3167695

Hi. I didn't determine they have lungworm, a veterinarian did by examing fecal under a microscope.
I'm in Colorado.

 

[JennyLeeF]

I've got lots of questions.
How do you know your chickens have Lung Worm? I'm not saying this is the case here but some people call Gape Worm Lung Worm and they are different.

What did you treat the Lung Worm problem with?
How many chickens do you have on the quarter acre?
Can you post a picture of the quarter acre?

Did the chickens you got range outside on natural ground before you got them?
Were these chickens fed a medicated feed when they were chicks.
What have you used to combat the coccidia?

1.Fecal sample found lungworm.
2.The first time it was treated with fenbendazole aquasol.
3. Eight chickens on quarter acre. Image attached. 2 chicken coops, one chicken tunnel, 2 trees, 2 sand/dirt bathing areas, 2 large grassy areas, 3 watering stations, 2 feed stations. Water cleaned and changed every other day.
4. I got them as chicks. I did let them range early
5. No medicated feed was given.
6. I am currently giving them sulfadimethoxine 1tsp/3.5 gallon per doctor order for coccidiosis.

 

[JennyLeeF]

Technically, mine can roam 8 acres if they want, including a natural waterway that has migratory and native birds, and most other flavors of wildlife at it. I have two fenced areas that contain the housing, they jump the fence daily to forage. Because of the AI threat this year, I now have tractors and electronet, and 10x20 pens that can be relocated seasonally for babies and breeders during spring/summer (and house everyone during migration). If fall migration doesn't pose an HPAI threat, they will all be turned out to range together for the winter. My breeds are mostly non-native, endangered or threatened breeds that do not have the benefit of more than a century of being bred for hardiness in the USA like the RIR. The one native breed I keep was only created a little more than 40 years ago. Still, I have not had the illness that you have. The only time I've seen ascites was in a neighbor's very old, no longer laying, hen earlier this year.

I second @aart 's request for a location. Do you still have a small flock of around one dozen? Looking back through your posts, no, you should not have this much trouble with illness with a small flock. So that would lead back to an underlying condition like Marek's, the Mycoplasma they could have been born with, bad genetics, or food/environment...or Googliosis.

Other observations from your previous posts:

• Do you have a dedicated vet and are they prescribing you all these meds or are you finding information online and giving the meds yourself?
• You're feeding a lot of non-commercial feed items, do they have dedicated grit and not just the ground they're ranging on?
• You know the parasites/disease could have come from your quail, right? Have they been tested?
• Is the voiceless rooster patient zero for the lung worm? If so, how was that diagnosed because you never mention going to a third vet in your thread.
• Where/when did you get the 2 year old hen with ascites? The rest of your flock is only a little over a year.
• Any meds that you're giving the flock without confirmed parasites/disease are wiping their natural gut flora and affecting their immune systems. Don't deworm unless you have worms, don't give antibiotics unless something is diagnosed and that's the specific antibiotic for it, they are not one size fits all.
• Are you feeding/treating with anything containing copper or silver (some feeds or colloidal silver), or any other "natural remedies"?

Those of us who have hundreds of chickens are more likely to see different illnesses just due to volume and probability, those with small flocks generally don't unless they're bringing in new birds or visit places with other birds often and practice no biosecurity.

I do not feed medicated chick food, I do not treat for worms, thanks to the fire ants, I have not had to deal with parasites other than mosquitos (and thus fowlpox). Even though we are perpetually in drought, I make sure they have green forage, even if I sprout it myself in the winter. They also get regular gut flora boosts with yogurt or cheese, in addition to a feed mix that I formulated myself. Electrolytes in the water only during periods of 100+ degree days, and only in every other batch of water (no waterer is less than 5 gallons). Waterers cleaned regularly and disinfected with oxine or virkon, quat ammonia foot baths at every access gate and at the front of the house (where guests would park if I ever had guests). Oxine or Virkon foot baths when there are yard visitors (it degrades within hours, no use keeping it out all the time), plus booties. Anyone handling them gets full PPE, because they aren't too keen on a full hazmat decon scrub down, buck naked in a kiddie pool...maybe this is why I don't have guests?

My experience with coccidiosis and respiratory issues can mostly be attributed to my ducks. Coccidiosis tends to flare up when the weather is wet, or there's a wet environment. I had one chick coop come down with it when I did not notice that a waterer had a leak (I think 2-3 chicks total); a few teenagers got sick when my ducks decided to go in the big coop at night because of a frequently visiting bobcat. No ducks in coop and no wet environment, no cocci problems. (Of course, an infrequently cleaned coop or deep litter method problems will increase the likelihood of respiratory issues too, ducks aren't the only culprit, but since they're ground dwellers, they stir up a lot of stuff and like it wet too.) Cocci is naturally occurring and the adults should be acclimated to it and not get sick. They still can have it in their fecal samples, but it shouldn't be multiplying at a rate to affect them unless their natural defenses (the good gut flora) have been depleted.

Stress, like that of a predator or dogs/children chasing them all the time is usually what triggers illness, could be anything, because of an underlying disease that lowers the immune system.

You can easily have them tested for Marek's or Mycoplasma to rule those out. Marek's doesn't always show symptoms, but it's everywhere and a good possibility. If you're sure they have Mycoplasma, then that's your most likely culprit.

My other questions are:

• Where did they all come from? A hatchery or local breeder? Was that source an NPIP participant?
• What other animals have been on that land in the last decade?
• If no animals, has that land been used for any commercial or industrial purpose?
• Are the vets you're going to actually doing tests or are they just diagnosing based on symptoms? Do you have copies of those lab results?
• You're spending a lot of money on vets, while it's a good possibility that Mycoplasmosis is at the root of all this, have you considered that you might be suffering from Googliosis too?

Most people here (especially those that hatch) will tell you that they've all suffered a bout or two of helicopter parenting; it's okay, but you have to resist the urge. Like plants, more damage can be done by overloving your birds than by most diseases and predators. If it's you, that shouldn't be difficult to fix. If it's Mycoplasma, then you have some decisions to make, the first of which should be to speak with a knowledgeable vet or your state lab to see what cost and effort is involved in your options. If you're scared because you live in a reportable state, don't be; not all reportable diseases require depopulation, and most state authorities are much more attuned to the fears and feelings of backyard keepers than you think.

At the very least, you'll feel better not having to worry so much, because you'll know, and you'll have a plan to move forward. Good luck and prayers for you.