Coturnix genetics

Discussion in 'Quail' started by ecogen, Aug 5, 2009.

  1. ecogen

    ecogen In the Brooder

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    Mar 18, 2009
    I am a molecular geneticist by trade (although with plants), but would like to play around with quail for a hobby. In bioenergy and agricultural plants we have nice germplasm resources that we often go to when starting a new breeding project. I understand this is not the case in cortunix.

    So I was wondering if there are folks out there who have taken a line (e.g., texas A&M, italian etc.) and worked hard to preserve its trait characteristics? If so, is there a list of such folks somewhere willing to sell eggs?

    Also, I am a complete newbie to quail genetics so are there any good books, websites, publications, etc. on the subject?

    I would like to work on longevity, egg size, and perhaps overall size. Any advice on those traits would be appreciated. thanks.
     
  2. macnugget

    macnugget Songster

    Monarc23 she will have your answers she is our genetic nut so to speak
     
  3. Ironsun

    Ironsun Chirping

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    Hi,

    I don't claim to know anything about genentics, I know very little how it really works.

    I'm mainly intrested how colour/feather pattern is passed from one generation to another and is now setting up a colour breeding programme with 9 groups to see what happens.

    Normal wild type feather pattern

    Normal X Normal = 100% Normal.
    Normal X Cinnamon = ?
    Normal X Fawn = ?
    Cinnamon X Normal = ? Under going.
    Cinnamon X Cinnamon = ? Under going.
    Cinnamon X Fawn = ? Under going.
    Fawn X Normal = ?
    Fawn X Cinnamon = ?
    Fawn X fawn = ?

    I've just managed to buy three other colours in the normal feather pattern But they are not in the States yet, or very few are available. Platinum male, Silver and Cream Females.

    Any help from a expert like yourself is welcome by me.
    Monarc is our genentic person to contact she will help you out with just about any thing. lol.

    Ironsun.
     
  4. ecogen

    ecogen In the Brooder

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    Mar 18, 2009
    Thank you both. Monarc23 was helpful with my first post and surely will be here.

    I have a lot to learn about quail and will probably start the first year creating a control population. This will give me time to learn about the birds and catch-up with what many of you are doing with color.

    Does anybody have an idea of how limiting inbreeding is with coturnix? Do you see consequences (say reduced size, egg production, health, etc) with mother x son crosses (or father x daughter). Is this more or less sever than sibling crosses? Sorry for the many questions.
     
  5. monarc23

    monarc23 Coturnix Obsessed

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    Quote:I am noooo major smartie when it comes to genetics in coturnix. I LOVE genetics but i deffinatly wouldn't call myself an expert. A lot of what I have learned on genetics of coturnix I have learned from scientific studies which I've posted about several times on here. [​IMG] YOu may actually be able to find a lot of what you're looking for (on controls and egg size with in breeding and all that other stuff) from the scientific studies which are available here online. I know that many of what they do they do inbreed to keep those characteristics around. I personally don't see inbreeding as a huge problem, but ofcourse as you probably know inbreeding too much will dilute the genetics and needs a little mixed up by newcomers [​IMG]

    heres a link to one of the articles I read a lot from the website I search a lot for free info: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=555543#B9

    I've
    crossed father to daughter and son to mother many times so far and have not seen an issue. One thing I have seen is breeding dark range to dark range (also known as black at hatch) the cross of both black at hatch to black at hatch can cause some deformities (which ive seen) no eyes, deformed beak with no eyes etc). Other than that, from my other colors and inbreeding nothing. I don't inbreed all that much but for my tuxedos I have to to some extent to keep the nice patterning im getting around [​IMG] I'm VERY proud of my tuxedos they just keep getting better and better [​IMG]

    I would deffinatly reccomend staying clear of A & Ms for a control group as they are hard to find in true form...and egg laying can be (not always) a disapointment. If it was me I'd start out with pharoahs even though I dont like their skiddishness they are the most wild form you can get [​IMG] Least that's my reccomendation. Though Jumbos are wonderful birds [​IMG] I've noticed a lot of variation lately in my jumbo browns, some are REALLy dark, others are really light (not cinnamon), others have white on their wings which is a new (to me) morph im working on [​IMG] I just love white on color [​IMG]

    I would LOVE for you to deffinatly focus on coturnix and deffiantly if you ever want to discuss genetics i'd love for you to yammer to me anytime you need to! I may not be bale to help but i'd surely love to hear your thoughts and future findings!!!! So please i beg of you deffiantly do your plans! [​IMG]

    I reccomend jumbos for egg size and body size [​IMG] Jumbo Browns or Jumbo goldens though Jumbo Browns are easier to find than golden in jumbo [​IMG]

    Longevity they can already live a decient lifetime however hens laying too much can be burnt out and die early as 1 year old to 3 years old...you could deffiantly look into working on a hen laying longer than one year well? [​IMG]
     
  6. ecogen

    ecogen In the Brooder

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    Mar 18, 2009
  7. monarc23

    monarc23 Coturnix Obsessed

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    Quote:I don't think i've seen that one yet but I'll have to look through it thanks! [​IMG] My friend has actually had friends who have had strains bought out from the breeders by labratories who don't want anyone else working with the new strain the breeders came up with so they pay off the breeder and make the breeder sign to never again work with the line as it's now property of the labratory in question. It happened to the rosettas however before the original breeder was sold out, some of his original birds were sold to my friend who is stll breeding them today [​IMG]
     
  8. danny40

    danny40 In the Brooder

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    Sep 4, 2009
    What happened to Ironsun's experiment? I am eagerly awaiting to see the results. I recall Monarc having a similar genetic result page but it would be great if there was a complete genetics post. Go little quails, enlighten our minds with procreation!
     
  9. Ironsun

    Ironsun Chirping

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    Hi,

    The ones I maked as on going, well the eggs are due to hatch on this comming Tuesday. Incubation is going fine, most eggs look full.

    Whith the others, I'm finding it difficult finding male fawns, I have loads of fawns hens. I'm hoping one of the groups will produce them some how, but it's a waiting game.

    Ironsun
     
  10. laseterlass

    laseterlass Songster

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    AND?
     

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