CRELE x BARRED Cross Mating = ??

Discussion in 'Exhibition, Genetics, & Breeding to the SOP' started by ChickenLeg, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. ChickenLeg

    ChickenLeg Crowing

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    Hypothetical Question:

    I have Single Barred & Double Barred Males, as well as Barred Females.

    Crossed over Crele Males & Crele Females.

    Can I cross them, then back cross to improve the barring on the Creles?

    If so, what is the best cross to accomplish this?

    Genetics explained with genes as well as layman terms please!
     
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  2. Sneebsey

    Sneebsey Songster

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    You can, but will need to back-cross to crele to get offspring that are pure on their e-locus. The first cross will yield black barred with gold leakage, but half the offspring from a back-cross will be correct.
     
  3. ChickenLeg

    ChickenLeg Crowing

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    Thank you.

    Do you know if its best to use Crele rooster over barred hens, or Barred rooster over crele hens? I know the chicken calculator I use says offspring is the same, so Im assuming either method is ok?
     
  4. The Moonshiner

    The Moonshiner Professional Chicken Tender

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    I would use your crele rooster over the barred hens.
    Your barred birds could be silver based and that isn't what you want if breeding for crele.
    Silver/gold is sex linked so your pullet offspring will be whatever their father is.
    If you use the crele rooster you will be guaranteed the pullets will carry gold.
    You may not have that guarantee if using the barred rooster.
    I would then breed the crele rooster back to the pullets. You'll then produce 50% of the crele birds you want.
    Any way you do it can work but some ways will require more chicks hatched then other ways.
    I'd also stay away from using any single barred males if you go the barred rooster over crele.
     
  5. Sneebsey

    Sneebsey Songster

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    Didn't even think about silver; barred as a variety is usually silver based so crele over barred hens and then back cross any hens to your crele. Thanks @The Moonshiner for thinking it through more than I.
     
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  6. ChickenLeg

    ChickenLeg Crowing

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    @The Moonshiner & @Sneebsey

    Thanks, I forgot to account for the base genes.

    Another question:

    If I have no barreds and only a black flock (gold based) to use, can the blacks cross with the creles to darken up barring? If so how would you mate and back cross?
     
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  7. Sneebsey

    Sneebsey Songster

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    Barring is made crisper and more visible by using a fast-feathering bird. It is for this reason that barred rock and cuckoo marans have different plumage pattens; the former is fast feathering, the latter slow. @The Moonshiner, I believe I have read about sex-linkage regarding feathering rates; perhaps you know the ins and outs?

    A black bird would just mix up the e-series as well as produce male offspring impure for barring. It would be more effort than its worth, imo.
     
  8. ChickenLeg

    ChickenLeg Crowing

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    Ok Thanks for replies, helps me out
     
  9. ChickenLeg

    ChickenLeg Crowing

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    Isnt barred the slow feathering, thats why it takes twice as long for barreds to feather in, and cuckoo is fast feathering thats why barring is uneven in cuckoo.
     
  10. The Moonshiner

    The Moonshiner Professional Chicken Tender

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    Yes that is correct.
    I wouldn't personally use a black bird to correct or improve barring myself.
    I don't see how it would improve it but that just may be me.
    I hear of breeders crossing to other things to improve such and such but don't know if it helps or not. If I want to improve barring I stick with barred birds and concentrate on breeding only the ones with the best barring.
     
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