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Crested Cream Legbar Question

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by featherqueen, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. featherqueen

    featherqueen Hatching

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    Jul 15, 2019
    I only have one male and zero females. I am only interested in maintaining auto sexing in further generations. If I breed my CCLB rooster to the following patterns and only kept the females as I cull the males which ones would I likely be able to maintain the auto sexing feature in future generations.

    Available Patterns in my flock.

    Crele
    Barred
    Gold Duck Wing
    Silver Duck Wing
    Red
    Red Columbian
    Columbian
    Black
    Splash

    I ran across this same situation years ago with Rhodebars, I only needed to cross the male with a RI Red and keep the females from that cross and I was able to autosex them further down the line. I am not sure if I can do the same with a Crested Cream Legbar.
     
  2. GaryDean26

    GaryDean26 Chicken Czar

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    Dec 22, 2011
    McAlester, OK
    My Coop
    I leaned the genetic names when I was being mentored in chicken breeding, but not the hobby names because they change from breed to breed and country to country so I am going to have to do a little bit of guesswork on what the genetic makeup is of the birds that you listed.

    Auto sexing requires the wild type primary color pattern denoted as [e+/e+] and the sex-linked barring denoted as [B/B] in males and [B/-] in females.

    The Cream Legbar cock will be [e+/e+], [B/B] if he is pure bread for autosexing.

    I am going to assume that crele is wild type with barring [e+/e+], [B/B]. If that is the case then wouldn't your crele be autosexing? I am not sure what other color modifiers are in the crele and how they effection the autosexing but to keep things simple I will just stick with the assumption that they are [e+/e+], [B/B] more males and [e+/e+], [B/-] for females.

    1) Cream Legbars Male [e+/e+], [B/B] x Crele Female [e+/e+], [B/-] =>
    50% [e+/e+], [B/B] Male (autosexing)
    50% [e+/e+], [B/-] female (autosexing)

    Gold Duckwing: is this a wild type primary color pattern, a wheaten primary color pattern, other? If they are wild type they will have the chipmunk striped chick down and the hens will have the salmon breast. They are not barred though. No barred is [b/-] in the females and [b/b] in the males.

    2) Cream Legbars Male [e+/e+], [B/B] x Gold Ducking Female [e+/e+], [b/-] =>
    50% [e+/e+], [B/b] Male (NOT autosexing)
    50% [e+/e+], [B/-] female (NOT autosexing)

    These are NOT autosexing, but the F1 females will be crele and they, in turn, could be used to produce F2 autosexing offspring is breed back to a cockerel purebred for autosexing (i.e. Cream Legbar). The cockerels from that crossing will NOT be purebred for autosexing and will not produces autosexing offspring even if bred to a crele hen.

    3) Cream Legbars Male [e+/e+], [B/B] x Silver Ducking Female [e+/e+], [b/-] =>
    50% [e+/e+], [B/b] Male (NOT autosexing)
    50% [e+/e+], [B/-] female (NOT autosexing)

    These are NOT autosexing, but the F1 females will be crele and they, in turn, could be used to produce F2 autosexing offspring is breed back to a cockerel purebred for autosexing (i.e. Cream Legbar). The cockerels from that crossing will NOT be purebred for autosexing and will not produces autosexing offspring even if bred to a crele hen.

    I believe the "red" would be a Wheaten primary color [ewh/ewh]. That is the yellow chick down and normally NOT suitable for autosexing. However, is you have color modifiers that give the chick down a red or brown tint to it this could work like in the case of the Rhodebars. The Rhodebars took several many years to get the autosexing right. I would say skip this one and call it Not autosexing.

    4) Cream Legbars Male [e+/e+], [B/B] x "Red" Female [ewh/ewh], [b/-] =>
    50% [e+/ewh], [B/b] Male (NOT autosexing)
    50% [e+/ewh], [B/-] female (NOT autosexing)
    Note: The F1 hens from this will be split wheaten color patter and wild type color pattern. Unless you want a 5+ year project to create autosexing birds I would say skip this one.

    Also, the Reds have the Columbian restrictor to extend the red plumage to the breast and legs of the males (they would have black breast and legs otherwise) as well a red enhancers. I am not sure exactly how these will affect autosexing by since they will be split from the first cross you will get some with and some without in the F2 and subsequent generations and really make it more difficult to read the chick down and sex them correctly

    The Columbian can be based on the partridge [eb/eb] or the wheaten [ewh/ewh] primary color pattern. There are going to have about the same results as the reds. I would skip these too.

    5) Cream Legbars Male [e+/e+], [B/B] x Red Columbian Female [eb/eb], [b/-] =>
    50% [e+/eb], [B/b] Male (NOT autosexing)
    50% [e+/eb], [B/-] female (NOT autosexing)

    Again there would be red enhancers and Columbian genes (and a lot others to be sure) so I would skip this one.

    6) Cream Legbars Male [e+/e+], [B/B] x Columbian Female [eb/eb], [b/-] =>
    50% [e+/eb], [B/b] Male (NOT autosexing)
    50% [e+/eb], [B/-] female (NOT autosexing)

    Without the red enhacers, these will be difficult to achieve autosexing with. They also have a lot of melonizers to give them the nice black lacing creating some very dark grey chicks and some that are nearly yellow. The sex-linked barring is supposed to dilute cockerels so that they are lighter than the females. With all the mix of melonizers that won't work well so again with the color enhancers, columbian restrictors, etc. I would skip this one.

    The blacks have an extended black primary color pattern [E/E]. This will not work for autosexing. You will get all black chicks and won't be able to see a lighter colored cockerel and lighter colored pullet and you won't be able to see diluting of dorsal stripes, etc. You can guess at the size of the head spot (cockerels being bigger spots and females being smaller spots) but extensive documentation on barred rocks proved that the best that even the highest trained eye can get is around 80% correct. Autosexing means 100% accuracy at sexing. So again skip this one.

    7) Cream Legbars Male [e+/e+], [B/B] x "Black" Female [E/E], [b/-] =>
    50% [e+/E], [B/b] Male (NOT autosexing)
    50% [e+/E], [B/-] female (NOT autosexing)

    Again the F2 hens would be no value to autosexing because they would be split between wild type and extended black so half of their offspring would be black and half would be chipmunk patterned. Skip these ones.

    The splash is also extended the black base. The blue down would not be any better than the dark grey Columbians down. F2 offspring would be blue, black, blue wild type and wild type. They would probably be worse than the black to work towards autosexing.

    So use the crele for you autosexing and if the Silver/Gold duckwings are wild type based (are they eb, ewh, other? I am not familiar with their genome) and not something else then you could breed the Legbar Ducking crosses back to the Legbar for F2 autosexing. The other options would not be able to get autosexing from the F1 hens.
     
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