Crooked and Curly Toes in Speckled Sussex PICS ADDED

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by wookiee, Jun 14, 2010.

  1. wookiee

    wookiee Out Of The Brooder

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    Does anyone have any insight into the crooked and curly toe problem with the speckled sussex? I got 5 chicks from a hatchery last year, and all the birds had curly toes. This year, trying to get some genetic diversity and get away from the toe problem, I got birds from two different hatcheries and hatching eggs from two breeders. Of the two batches that are at 7 weeks, I have curly toes from both batches, and the hatched breeder batch is actually worse. The remaining two younger batches are also starting to show the curly toes. I do not believe that it is my incubation or rearing practices because I have other hatches (of different breeds) that have straight toes. I also have other breeds that have been raised with these speckled sussex and their toes are straight.

    Does anyone have any speckled sussex with straight toes?? I read one post on here that someone got tired of trying to breed the curly toes out. Why would the toes be so bad in this breed?
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2010
  2. Chris09

    Chris09 Circle (M) Ranch

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    Is the toe Curled or is it Crooked?

    Curled Toe Paralysis is when the toes are curled and the chick walks on the tops of his curled toes, rather than the sides of the toes as with crooked toes.
    Curled toes are caused by a deficiency in Riboflavin...


    Crooked Toe Chicks with Crooked Toe usually get crooked toes when the humidity during incubation is too low but they can also get them if the floor of the rearing area / brooder is too cold and they can also inherit them from their parents.

    Chris
     
  3. wookiee

    wookiee Out Of The Brooder

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    I guess they would technically be crooked toes. The most prevalent deformity is that the outer and/or inner toes are curling, but the curl is to the side and not under.
     
  4. bargain

    bargain Love God, Hubby & farm Premium Member

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    Our speckled sussex have never had crooked or curly toe problems..... I suspect this must be in those lines somewhere from the hatcheries? Or the hatcheries have wiring/pen issues....So I don't think it's specific to the breed.

    Hope this helps and have a blessed day. Nancy
     
  5. wookiee

    wookiee Out Of The Brooder

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    Here are some pictures. These are from the birds that I incubated, so I can't blame it on wire cages. They hatched on a rough sponge insert type surface that was not slippery. They were not born with obviously crooked toes, but they have gradually developed.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  6. aveca

    aveca Chillin' With My Peeps

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    We were talking about this on another thread same subject.. If they arnt born like that, vitamin b2? and A deficiency...Been seening a lot of this , in fact I had one hatch very early year to test run bator fed commercial feeds said they were fortified with everything needed but the chick born perfect toes, then as time went on her outside toes started to get crooked and she had a slight tremor to her walk and didnt develope structure like she should have , once she was put outside to eat outside pickings with regular feed she improved and didnt get worse. she improved slightly.

    another chick (same parents) under a broody again born perfect toes was outside from day one and that one remains perfect toes. vitamins added will stop it from getting any worse..I think the feed companies should be told about this with collection of pictures...

    That case looks pretty severe and probably will only stop it from getting worse but most likley wont reverse it.

    early hatch chick on commercial feed hatched late jan. You can clearly see perfect straight toes..
    [​IMG]

    Same chick....We caught the problem befor it got too bad with vitamins you might be able to see slight crooked outside toes and she developed narrow underneath out of 2 very wide parents.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2010
  7. lildinkem

    lildinkem Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I seen this with ALOT of large fowl breeders. Many who show their birds with that flaw. It seems to not be judged too harshly. I don't think it will DQ a bird. I know I have alot of big Buffs who have that type of toe. I notice it in certain lines. And I agree I would breed away IF I can and still not loose anything. I seem to notice this trait with my largest birds. One of my juvie Buff males has a huge head and body but has toes that makes yours look like strait lined toes. So, do I use him? We'll see what else he has wrong. IF that is it he MAY make it later into the 2nd half of the year. Those are the choices one makes to make a perfect bird.
     
  8. aveca

    aveca Chillin' With My Peeps

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    lildinkem have y seen this a time or 2 in your flock? and does it develope later on?
    The chick I posted above is australorps..you can see she had straight toes when hatched but over time started twisting out in second pic..she wont be bred just a yard bird .mainly cause shes just not right too narrow but a monster in size and feathering .it was getting bad until she went outside even the tremor in her walk improved but there is only so much you can do .. could that be a throwback to some of the orps in her past?

    Here is the cockeral same parents , this one was outside from day one and he is wide and no crooked toes. today he just looked like a ball on legs with a head. he seems to get rounder every day been wathching the feet closley and so far no anomolies. he was also very beare butted like your orps till just recently
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2010
  9. lildinkem

    lildinkem Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:That sounds like my bigger Orps too. Just seems my big ones toes curl a bit. Most of my Black Orps do not have that issue. Just my bigger Buffs. And that could come from the Rock in their past.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2010
  10. aveca

    aveca Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Maybe this is just bound to crop up in some breeds like buff orps and occasionally australorps and offspring - decendants of them I can beleive that , they are very big birdies and I thought maybe they need the extra width of toesjust to stay upright..when I saw the staggering walk of this chick and the ever spreading toes I thought Oh no! . I thought I was buying the best feed avail. I think it was the staggering gate that clued me in that maybe something was amiss

    here is some info on vit b2 deficiency. from world poultry

    Diseases: Vitamin B2 deficiency

    Also known as Curled toe paralysis, Riboflavin deficiency

    Effects of Vitamin B2 deficiency
    Curled toes, poor growth, weak and emaciation are seen in young birds. Leg muscles are atrophied and flabby. The skin is dry and harsh. Poor hatchability and egg production can occur in adults. Dead embryos have "clubbed" down feathers. Poults have severe dermatitis of the feet and shanks and incrustations on the corners of the mouth.

    Postmortem lesions
    Enlarged sciatic and brachial nerve, leg muscles are atrophied and flabby in young birds. Adults have enlarged fatty (yellow) livers.

    Diagnosis of Vitamin B2 deficiency
    Postmortem lesions (curled toes) are characteristic.

    Treatment & Control of Vitamin B2 deficiency
    Prevention
    Quality control of the diet.

    Treatment
    Increase B2 in diet. Vitamin B2 is needed for correct functioning of the peripheral nervous system.

    Treatment
    If a specific vitamin deficiency is suspected, drinking water supplementation with that vitamin is ideal and usually results in a rapid response in birds that are still drinking. Good quality multivitamin solutions are beneficial in the supportive care of a range of problems characterised by reduced feed intake. The balance of vitamins present should be similar to the daily nutritional requirement of the stock concerned.

    Prevention
    Adequate supplementation of the feed with all required vitamins in levels which both support normal productivity but also have enough overage to deal with the increased demands that often occur during periods of disease challenge.

    breads have been enriched wih vitamin b2 the chick since she was alone never took a liking to breads but all of the other chicks will trip all over each other for bread. ;like this group .. no toe issues in this group maybe because they go crazy for thier dailey bread.. only that one chick seen above but she did improve. at least the worst of it stopped she will eat some bread now ..
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2010

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