Crookneck cured.....then it returned

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by opihiman911, Feb 5, 2008.

  1. opihiman911

    opihiman911 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    A couple weeks ago I posted about a austrolorp chick that had crookneck. I got the cure from you guys online here and within 4 days of giving it highdose vitamin E and B-complex it was almost cured. Within a week it was 100% back to normal and running with its siblings. I kept up giving it the high dose vitamins and put vitamins in thier water. Last week I started tapering off the vitamins, going from giving it twice a day, to once a day, to half dose. It has been off the vitamins for the last 3-4 days, eating drinking and playing normally.
    This morning I went to take them out of the brooder and let them out into the run and the chick has the crookneck coming back. It is definately back. It is walking around the run with is head sideways, occasionally touching the ground.
    I went ahead and gave it a dose of the vitamins today and will probally going to go back to twice a day till its back to normal.
    Whats going on with this chick? all the other chicks are fine with no health problems. They all eat the same food and water, play and sleep in the same area. Am I going to have to forcefeed this chicken high dose vitamins for the rest of its life? I don't think I can do that.
    I'm going to try and nurse it back to normal once again, but I'm not sure what else I can do. Am I missing anything?

    Aloha,
    Cory
     
  2. ruth

    ruth Life is a Journey

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    Hi Cory - I was glad to see your prior post that your little crook neck had gotten better but sad to see that it is getting worse again. As I mentioned in my posts, I fed Ruth the vitamin E and liquid caged-bird vitamins daily for several weeks along with shredded cheese and other high-protein foods. I believe it is a vitamin deficiency or vitamin absorption problem and will need the vitamins for a few weeks at least. Ruth's neck stayed somewhat crooked and she stayed a "runt" for months. She didn't grow feathers or a tail till she was months old and her tail also curves to left. She can straighten her head and tail but they both easily curve to left especially when she's eating. Other than a little curving, she's the fiestiest of the bunch and ducks and darts under everyone else's feet to grab the food first.

    Here's a picture of her taken after she had finally gotten healthy and had grown her feathers and tail.

    [​IMG]

    Keep up the TLC. She'll be the sweetest pet of the bunch and will so appreciate you for it.
     
  3. dlhunicorn

    dlhunicorn Human Encyclopedia

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    Malabsorptions issues? (I had this with one of my birds and had to supplement for six months)
    Also be sure and check everything for wet areas or forgotton wet grains or such that he might be feeding from on occasion? [​IMG]
    If due to head injury this can often take several weeks to heal and things to get back to normal.
    You might also check to make sure your B vitamin source has vit B-1 (Thiamine) as this (deficiency)will also cause these symptoms. (POLYVISOL does not contain B-1)
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2008
  4. opihiman911

    opihiman911 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    That is what I'm coming up with....malabsorbtion problems. I wondered about the feed so I threw away the medicated feed and bought 20% grower crumble. I am using a human Thera-plus high potency multivitamin liquid that does have thiamin in it. I have been giving it 1cc per dose, so that comes out to 2mg of thiamin twice a day. I have also been putting 5cc of the vitamins in thier quart water container that gets used in 2-3 days.
    After 3 doses and a day and half later, the crook neck is correcting itself and has its head up and eating again. It will probally be back to 100% by tomorrow.
    I'll keep it up daily for the next week or two and again see if I can wean it off to every other day.
    Thanks for the help I'll keep you updated.

    Aloha,
    Cory
     
  5. ruth

    ruth Life is a Journey

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    Cory - the liquid bird vitamins I used was called Avitron and can be bought where most pet suppies are sold. It has the Vitamin D3 that birds need as well as vitamin E and A. I gave that - one drop in beak -and one Vitamin E capsule per day. Ruth really seemed to like the vitamine E capsule and would be gobbling the goo as I squeezed it out. Sunshine also really helps provide essential vitamins. Can you put her out in a cage in the sun?
     
  6. opihiman911

    opihiman911 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I looked in the 1 pet store we have in town and they didn't have any bird vitamin. Thats when I found one online and took the ingredience on it and took it to the pharmacy and found a liquid form with all the same vits, plus some others like biotin and a couple more B's, then figured out what dose to give them.....come out 1cc is about 200% of the bird vitamins. 1 drop would sure be easier, but its what I got and it seems to be working. That and the extra 400u of Vit E in addition to what in the liquid vitamin. Not sure which is doing the job, but it is working.

    Aloha,
    Cory
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2008
  7. dlhunicorn

    dlhunicorn Human Encyclopedia

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    did you use the vit E combined with selenium? selenium and vit E are co dependent on each other (and watch out with the A...if in excess it can hamper the effectivity of the E)
     
  8. opihiman911

    opihiman911 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    the liquid multivitamin I'm giving her has selenium in it, along with others not listed on the bird vitamin like biotin, a couple other B, leucapin and a bunch of minerals like calcium, iron, manganese. I was a little worried that some of these extras vitamins and minerals might be toxic to chickens, but what else could I do.
    I went and checked on her this morning and she is again back to 100%. I let her out into the run with her siblings and a couple of my older gentler hens I have and is doing great. She is able keep up with her siblings and run away from the older hens when they try and give them a lesson in coop life.
    I went a checked the brooder and run for anything wet or mildew and didn't find anything. I do throw a handful of scratch in the run every day for them, so there is some scratch that doesn't get eaten and gets wet with the morning dew, but not an abundance
    I will probally try and wean her off the twice a day dosing and see if I can get it down to a managable every other day, plus the vitamins in the water. The dosing I'm giving her is over 200% of what the bird vitamins are, so right now she is probally getting close to 500% of the recommended bird dose per day.
    I can tell it is really taking a toll on her as she is half the size of her other 2 siblings and still has some of her chick down while the others are fully feathered. Luckily the other 2 don't pick on her and accept her to cuddle together when they sleep and cruise around as a group staying out of the way of the old aunties of the coop.
    Thanks for all you help.

    Aloha,
    Cory
     
  9. dlhunicorn

    dlhunicorn Human Encyclopedia

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    some micro-nutrients (like selenium!) have a very narrow therapeutic range (meaning they can be toxic at a very small amount over the therapeutic one)...
    Please get a proper bird dosage general nutritional/vitamin supplement if the supplement has other things in it not recommended at the therapeutic levels you may need for a particular condition ... AviaCharge 2000 is one that is formulated specifically for chickens and is one of the few I know that is complete and at dosages that can in principal be given daily to your chickens without causing problems and in combination with other specific vitamins which may be need in addition to it (like vit E/selenium etc) without causing any hypervitaminosis (overdose). You can order it online from McMurray Hatchery or Strombergs.
    As far as the vitE/selenium .... B vitamins > look at agway or walmart or your neighborhood halthfood store or pharmacy... there is a specific human supplement that has the combination of vitE/selenium where the selenium does not exceed 50 MICROgrams... I reiterate>DO NOT EXCEED THIS DOSAGE (excess selenium will cause the exact same symptoms you are treating as will many other micronutrients!!!!)
    The B vitamins can often be found in a childrens supplement .... but dont get a one that has 15 other vitamins along with it...CALCIUM in particular is very bad for your birds in excess!
     
  10. opihiman911

    opihiman911 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I went and checked the selenium amount and it is 50 micrograms per 5cc (teaspoon). I am giving her 1cc twice a day, so she is getting 20microgram per day.
    As far as the calcium and other minerals they are all below the amounts listed on a poulrty vit/mineral/electrolyte powder that I found at the feedstore that gets mixed in water....So I don't think I'm overdosing her.
    Trust me I do wish I could get a real chicken vitamin and use it. Living on a small island in the middle of the Pacific does have its drawbacks. I was going to order from McMurray but the only way they ship to Hawaii is FedEx which is very expensive and still take 2-3 days. I didn't think my hen could wait that long. Thats when I got the ingredience of the vitamins from McMurry and went looking at my local pharmacy to find an equivilent.....or as close as I could.
    Today is the third day of the crookneck return and restart of treatment and the hen is 100% back to normal. It is absolutely amazing the see how quick she responds to the vitamin therapy.
    This week I started letting her siblings sleep outside in the run with the older hens with a light for warmth. I went out last night to put the crookneck hen back in the brooder since she isn't fully feathered like the others, but they were all snuggled way in a back corner under an iron roof and had no intention of coming out. They weren't even by the light bulb so I guess they were warm enough. So I left the crookneck with the others. I guess she feels more comfortable with the others than alone in the brooder with a warm light. Woke up this morning and she was just fine hanging with her peeps. Had a hard time catching her this morning to give her her vitamins. I guess she is doing fine.
    I think today is going to be the last day I am going to give vitamins twice a day. I will just give it once a day and see how she does. I'll keep it for a month or two now before I try and wean her off again. I sure hope this isn't a chronic problem that I have to give her vitamin every day for the est of her life. I can't imagine that, I can barely remember to give my 2 kids their daily vitamins.
    Thanks for everyone help in curing her a second, and hopefully last, time.

    Aloha,
    Cory
     

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