crossing two barred breeds getting a surprize

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by centrarchid, Jun 12, 2011.

  1. centrarchid

    centrarchid Chicken Obsessed

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    Recently I crossed two barred breeds, American dominique from Privett Hatchery stock, and California grey. Hens were dom and roosters were California grey. Male offspring as expected with barring pattern of 2/3 light grey alternating with 1/3 dark grey. Female offspring were different than expected. As predicted barring pattern is 1/2 light grey alternating with 1/2 dark grey but bars are very narrow giving a ringed effect like that of a barred rock. Slow feathering gene if were operating to should only be expressed in males. If interest in this noted, then I will provide photographs.


    I have repeated cross using same California grey rooster bred to two groups of dominique hens, each dom group different from each other and first group.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2011
  2. Hi Jim! I'm curious (wasn't familiar with California Gray and had to look them up). What did you get?
    [​IMG]
    Lisa
     
  3. klf73

    klf73 Mad Scientist

    Jun 1, 2008
    Maine
    probably due to the california gray already being a cross?
    If you crossed a cuckoo marans with a dominique you wouldn't get the same result....
     
  4. centrarchid

    centrarchid Chicken Obsessed

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    Quote:Caifornia gray developed as cross between leghorn and barred rock back on 1930's. Thereafter selected to breed true so no longer a cross.


    Dipsy Doodle Doo,

    Still trying to figure it out. Will post pictures later. Apparently multiple genes involved with barring.
     
  5. centrarchid

    centrarchid Chicken Obsessed

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    Pictures of dominique (Privette Hatchery strain) hen x California grey rooster. I am not able to sex based on overall coloration. Pure dom pullets would normally be much darker than cockerols. The pullet does appear to have slightly less developed light grey bars relative to cockerol. Adult feathers coming appear smokey in wings.


    Latersal female
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    Lateral male
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    Wing female
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    Wing male
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    Head shot female (note single)
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    Head shot male (beefy rose comb)
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  6. Henk69

    Henk69 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    They look similar to me.

    Why wouldn't the pullets show the slow feathering effect, it is dominant and sexlinked. Dom.s are normal feathering right?
     
  7. centrarchid

    centrarchid Chicken Obsessed

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    Quote:At least two loci associated with slow feathering effect. Autosomal version in both doms and barred rock. The second is sex-linked with Z chromosome which barred rocks have and I suspect Privett Strain doms also carry. When both loci carrying slow feathering genes, then contrast between light and dark bands more intense than if only one or no loci involved. In other words, the birds can have 4 copies (males only), 3 to 0 copies (both sexes). The more copies the slower the feathering. I associate the fine lines with the slow feathering gene which these birds do not appear to express. Something else enabling tight lines.

    When I look at birds from distance the pullets appear to have more and finer lines like on a barred rock although the shades of grey on this cross are much lighter. This difference is most evident on contour feathers.


    Normally with straight dominique or California grey birds of their age, sex should be evident in overal coloration where females are decidely darker. I am unable to sex these birds based on thier overall color pattern but I can sex them based on how tight lines / bars appear from distance.
     
  8. Chris09

    Chris09 Circle (M) Ranch

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    I think you are getting a "smokey" color do to the California Grey. The California Grey isn't known for having the best of color or barring and when looking at picture three, I can see that they are loosing correct Horizontal barring in the Primary and Secondary wing feathers that is most likely do to California Grey blood in them.

    I have to say (and I'm sure you know this but), I don't think that your American Dominique line that you used is "pure" if you are getting Single Combed offspring out of a California Grey/ American Dominique they should have been all Rose Comb.

    Here is a picture of that F1 rooster out of a American Gamefowl rooster and a American Dominique hen.
    Note he still has barring though faint and the color of the barring is the Grey color that most American Dominique roosters seem to have. I also posted a picture of his Dam a pure American Dominique.

    F1 rooster ( American Gamefowl /American Dominique )
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    Dam of F1 ( pure American Dominique )
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    Chris
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2011
  9. Henk69

    Henk69 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Do you have a reference on the autosomal slow feathering?
    I heard about the columbian theory, but not this one.
     
  10. Chris09

    Chris09 Circle (M) Ranch

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    centrarchid,
    This is what I have on the barring gene it might help you out some I don't know.

    The below information is from the book Exhibition Poultry Keeping by David Scrivener [​IMG]2005

    Barring Gene: B
    This is a Sex-link gene that stops and starts pigment production as in feather growth to give the well-known barring pattern as seen on Barred Wyandottes and Scots Greys. The extremely narrow and sharp barring seen on the Barred Plymouth Rocks is achieved by the presence of the gene ('K') for very slow feathering growth,which allows for a lot of on/off sequences in the time it takes for a feather to grow. The same barring gene ('B') when on a rapid feathering breed gives wide, coarse, fuzzy "Cuckoo Barring" as seen on Cuckoo Marans, Cuckoo Pekins (Cochins) and others. The barring gene also interacts with the gene on the E locus, all of the above examples being based on the E plus melantoics. Thus all these barring and cuckoo breeds would be self-black if they did not have the barring gene. This gene has greater pigment-restricting effect on black pigment than it does on red or gold pigment. When the barring gene is applied to the Wild Type pattern, the Crele variety is produced; and the barring on Columbian pattern combination is seen on Rhodebars, one of the autosexing breeds.
    It is to be hoped that most, preferably all readers of this book are already familiar with the principles of sex-linkage. They should be aware that the barring gene is not completely dominant to non-barring, which is why both dark- and light-barred males are seen, but only dark-barred females.
    In most breeds with a Crele variety, Crele OEG for example, the richer colored males that have only one barring gene are exhibited, but in the autosexing breeds only light males carry two barring gene should be exhibited and (in normal circumstances) bred from. The phrase "in normal circumstances" is used here becouse some inbred strains of autosexing breeds are sometimes revived by crossing with the other related breed, for example Brown Leghorn for Gold Legbars. Dark Crele males may be used as part of the process.

    Chris
     

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