Denagard use and egg withdrawal

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by jake and pippa, Nov 11, 2016.

  1. jake and pippa

    jake and pippa Out Of The Brooder

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    Denagard users, a few questions.

    Do you eat eggs from birds WHILE they are being dosed with Denagard. If not, when do you start to eat them. Would you give those raw eggs to your dogs? If not, why not. I am looking for a reason based on facts. I assume you would cook them for your birds, or allow them to be set and hatched.

    I administer the drug with mash, as the birds often will not eat treated water, even if I add honey or apple cider. I mix a 8 ml/gallon solution, then use it to make a moist mash, feed twice a day, and they gobble it up. It certainly helps, but they get sick again. Perhaps I am not treating long enough.

    How do you reduce repeated flare ups. Do you take special care to clean up poo, which seems almost hopeless if you have a large flock, as I do. Do you cull the entire flock and start over? And if so, how to protect from new infection? How much of a risk are wild songbirds, for example?

    Any other words of wisdom? While I am interested in anecdotes and opinions, I am very much interested in hearing about your studies, and from those with a veterinary background.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
  2. Ravynscroft

    Ravynscroft For the Love of Duck Premium Member

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    Denagard (Tiamulin) does not have an egg withdrawal period... it is safe for egg consumption for humans, not sure about dogs... and I don't believe it is recommended to feed them back to the flock...

    There isn't an egg withdrawal for people because Tiamulin is not related to any human antibiotic...

    How long are you treating your flock for? What is the treatment for? What are the symptoms of your flock? Denagard doesn't work for all infectios diseases so if it's not something Denagard works for, you will continue to see slight improvement followed by reoccurrance...
     
  3. jake and pippa

    jake and pippa Out Of The Brooder

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    My birds have respiratory symptoms some wheezing or gasping and not uncommonly one will have an eye which is swollen shut or tearing. They eyes can also have a discharge. I had one bird autopsied but they did not do cultures. The bird did not have Merrick's or anything which they were really able to identify just by looking at path slides. In speaking to the veterinarian, a very experienced expert in avian infectious disease, I described my birds symptoms and she thought that they have like mycoplasma. I know there are some other conditions with similar symptoms. The birds did respond to Tylan, but I have a lot of birds and it is very labor-intensive to inject everyone. I also have a complication that I have a mixed flock, chickens ducks and geese. The ducks do not appeare to be sick at all but sometimes I hear the geese wheezing. I think it is only when they are eating and at times when they may not have fresh water at hand that might not be a sign any illness. With the geese, for quite a long time there was only one goose that made any noise. I thought it had gotten something caught in his throat. The geese are like goats, they eat everything.

    Ideally, I would really like to keep some of my chickens and my breeding stock Scobee and the trio of geese. I really do not want to deal with this illness going forward. I spent quite a bit of money buying birds this year, but I don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish. On the other hand, if respiratory diseases like these are very common in wildlife, I could clean stock and yet become reinfected next year anyway.

    I would very much appreciate any advice you have. These birds are not pets, but I care about them quite a bit and I do not want them to suffer.
     
  4. jake and pippa

    jake and pippa Out Of The Brooder

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    I've been treating my flock for only two days. They are certainly better they are quite happy walking around. There are a few birds that appear sicker than the others and I hear some wheezing from birds at night. It is now getting cool here, and one concern I have is how open or close the coop should be at night. I am not too concerned predators because I have electric poultry netting surrounding everyone and it is pretty hot. In the summer it seemed it was much better to keep everything open as much as possible because circulation was important as protection against respiratory problems. Now as it's getting colder I am not sure what balance to strike. In one of my sheds I have a few heat lights for my young birds and they like to stay underneath there in the evening shift has an open window but I close the door at night.
     
  5. Ravynscroft

    Ravynscroft For the Love of Duck Premium Member

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    Denagard should be given for 3-5 days, and it sounds like you've given them the preventative dosing... if you can get them to drink it from water, that does work best, but any way you can get them to take it should help...

    It certainly sounds like a respiratory issue, and waterfowl are much more hardy and resistant to the ones chickens are most susceptible to... although the goose coughing/gagging/wheezing does worry me... you may also have more than 1 type of issue... have you ever dewormed them? I found my ducks to be much more susceptible to the high worm count we have here, had one coughing (or so I thought) and came to find out it was a high load of worms interfering with her breathing...

    Tylan also does not have to be injected, you can give it orally but that is still a pain... injections cause soreness and bruising and repeated injections can lead to longterm issues...

    Please check your Denagard dosages, as mine say 8cc per gallon for preventative treatment and 15cc per gallon for severe treatment... don't exceed 15cc, that stuff is hard on their kidneys...

    As for your coop, make sure you have plenty of ventilation but draft free... each chicken generates 8BTUs of heat, so they have no trouble keeping themselves warm as long as they stay dry and out of drafts... good venting just below the roof and above their heads is one of the best types of venting... that way the moisture from their breathing can escape and not be trapped inside the coop with them... moist air in the coop will also aggravate any respiratory issues as well...

    If you feel any birds are just too sick, not recovering quick enough, suffering or relapsing, then you may want to consider culling them... culling the weaker and continuing with the stronger is how many breed for resistance... culling your entire flock or not is personal choice, some say you should, and some say you shouldn't... realistically only you can make that choice... as long as you are careful and don't expose others' birds or flocks intentionally, then with proper care and management you can keep your flock going forward with breeding towards resistance...
     
  6. jake and pippa

    jake and pippa Out Of The Brooder

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    Thank you so much for that detailed response. I had read the 8 ml/gallon figure on this site, and it seemed many used it. My vet said it is used for chickens in Europe at a dose of 25mg/kg in water for a 5-day treatment. But I have birds of varying weights. I will go to 15 ml/gallon, in feed. I have many more questions, most will have to wait. Regarding worming, I have ivermectin, not used yet. Treat with denagard or after? Egg withdrawal? Dosage. I am giving electrolytes with food/water/mash.
     
  7. Ravynscroft

    Ravynscroft For the Love of Duck Premium Member

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    For deworming, Ivermectin is not properly effective... great for lice and mites (external parasites) but not internal... I recommend a good broad spectrum dewormer like Safeguard (fenbendazole) or Valbazen (albendazole)... Safeguard 10% is 0.5cc/mL per 2.2lbs of body weight one day and again 10 days later, or for 5 consecutive days for all worms or severe infestation... Valbazen is 0.08cc/mL per 1lb of body weight one day and then again 10 days later...
     
  8. jake and pippa

    jake and pippa Out Of The Brooder

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    I have seen no obnoxious evidence of worms (none visible in stool). There are some lice, not a big problem, but it can't be pleasant for the birds. Do you deworm on general principles, or only when you see something definitive. Also, my chickens range in age from 3 months to adult, plus bantams. How to dose?

    On the respiratory issue, I increased the Denagard dose, most birds doing well, some younger birds not so well. Do you see fever in mycoplasma infections? Some birds have fever. I did not measure fever, but they are warm to the touch. How do I differentiate tyco infection from Corza absent a culture.

    I will be culling some of my roos this week for freezer camp. With fewer birds and less stress from too many males, I hope this will help.

    If Denagard is unrelated to drugs used in man, and that is why we can eat the eggs, why is there a withdrawal for meat?
     
  9. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member

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    A friend of mine is experimenting with Valbazen (albendazole) in the water and has reported that 7.5 ml per gallon was enough to treat large roundworms in his flock. He does his own fecals, so was able to verify that it worked. He also purchased birds from another breeder that uses this method and upon arrival, those birds had negative fecals.

    -Kathy
     
    sonshine15 likes this.
  10. Jeanquin

    Jeanquin Just Hatched

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    Thank you! Very Informative thread.
     
    casportpony likes this.

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