Difficult! Silver wheaten questions for genetics experts!

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by gallorojo, Oct 23, 2010.

  1. gallorojo

    gallorojo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I raise Cubalayas, which are wheaten. I started out with a wheaten cockerel, 2 wheaten hens , and a silver wheaten hen. I know from looking at many pictures, that the silver wheaten hen is indeed silver wheaten. Plus, when she is crossed with a regular wheaten, 100% of the babies are gold wheaten, 2 years in a row, using 2 different roosters. My silver hen has 2 faults, first, she has green eyes, and, second, she has blue legs. Keep all that in the back of your head. I have been working on some grade breeding projects with my Cubalayas, crossing them with several other breeds, then breeding back to pure over many generations. My first cross was to barred rock hens, this gives of course a black sex-link hen, and a barred with red/gold cock. The Cubalaya cocks used were either pure bb redwheaten, or gold wheaten, not sure which, either way, the F1 is the same in looks, not sure about genes.... I kept the 2 best black cross hens, and, crossed them back to another pure bb red wheaten rooster. Using the chicken color calculator, it seems that half the chicks would be wheaten, and half extended black. That is exactly what I got on hatch day, half yellow chicks, half black. No surprise there. However, as the chicks have matured, there are some big surprises!! All the wheaten hens from this cross are SILVER WHEATEN WITH GREEN EYES AND BLUE LEGS!!! The cockerel from this cross is a regular bb red wheaten, with red eyes and white legs. Even stranger, the black chicks ended up 2 cockerels, and 2 pullets..the pullets are both rusty black, and 1 cockerel is rusty black. However, the 2nd black cockerel is turning out to be sort sort of birchen, or brassy back,( maybe he will be salmon faverolles color?) he is black with a silver neck, and gold-yellow back and wings...I CANNOT figure out HOW I can possibly get these results!!!!! Can anyone explain this to me? Where are the silver wheaten hens coming from? Shouldn't they be extended black bb red wheaten hens? And, where is the weird birchen/brassy back looking guy coming from!! I keep trying the chicken calculator, but can't get these results..What do I not understand? Thanks for any help!!!
     
  2. smoothmule

    smoothmule Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I know this is post is old but could you please post photo's and an update on the silver wheatens? I would like to see what you're calling silver wheaten
     
  3. Henk69

    Henk69 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    There are (among others) 2 genes at play.
    A melanizer that can cause the brassy back with wing triangle.
    Inhibitor of dermal melanin Id which is sexlinked (white/yellow legs vs slate/green legs).

    A silver wheaten hen that only produces gold offspring is not very typical. She has no influence on the female offspring and the male offspring should be at least het silvers.
     
  4. saladin

    saladin Chillin' With My Peeps

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    gallo,

    I'm not even sure you need any answers anymore. lol. Since others have resurrected the thread I'll give non-technical answers (since that is what I prefer).

    Silver Wheaten Cubalayas often throw chicks with blue legs. It only seems to be in the Silver Wheaten strain. For example, you can breed a Silver Wheaten hen to a BBR and then use the GDW sons (with red shoulders) back over regular Wheaten hens and you should never produce a blue legged chick. Amazing! (That said, I do have Blue legs in my Whites but I put that there).

    Wheaten is columbian. Thus, this influences how it crosses with other colors.

    Also, remember that true Cubalaya Wheaten is different and acts different than other Wheatens. Unless someone has actually worked with Cubalaya Wheaten they'll unintentionally lead you astray.
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. nicalandia

    nicalandia Overrun With Chickens

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    this Cant be, Silver wheaten hen crossed with gold wheaten rooster will produce 100% gold wheaten hens, but.. 100% golden(S/s+ mix of silver and gold) roosters, if you are hatching gold roosters then she may infact not be silver at all, they way she is segregating gold birds indicates a recessive gold diluter, recessive cream comes to mind
     
  6. saladin

    saladin Chillin' With My Peeps

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    You misunderstood what he wrote.

    He wrote the Silver Wheaten hen was bred (he used 'crossed') with a regular BBR cock (that is what a 'wheaten' Cubalaya is called.

    Thus, you get goldens. Not golden to silver as you misread.
     
  7. saladin

    saladin Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Besides, in Cubalayas our goldens are produced by breeding silver to bbr.

    If you then bred the golden back to silver you will get: silver hens and maybe some goldens and split cockerels (golden and silver).
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  8. saladin

    saladin Chillin' With My Peeps

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    One other:

    If you breed a Silver Wheaten Cubalaya hen to a regular BBR cock all the pullets produced will be Wheaten.... without exception.

    Silver Wheaten Cubalaya cock to a Wheaten hen all the pullets will be Silver Wheaten....without exception.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  9. nicalandia

    nicalandia Overrun With Chickens

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    I misunderstood? how so, he was clear on his writing..



    what part did I misread?

    Silver wheaten hens is eWh/eWh S/-(one copy of dominant sex linked silver) cross to Regular wheaten(gold based not silver based) the regular wheatens are gold instead of silver eWh/eWh s+/s+(two copies of recessive sex linked gold) when this cross is done you will get 100% gold wheaten hens(regular hens eWh/eWh s+/- one copy of gold only) and 100% Golden(mix of Silver S/s+, so not true golds)

    so if he is getting 100% gold wheaten birds(males and females) the hen is infact not silver but has a recessive pheomelanin diluter...

    OR.. Gallorojo is confusing gold with golden(it can happens)

    gallo rojo do your Regular wheaten males look like Black Breasted Reds?
    gallo rojo do your gold wheaten males look like a mix between Black breasted Reds and Silver duckwing? with yellow color instead of red?
    gallo rojo do your Silver wheaten males look like a Silver duckwing? with the Red on a white silver tone
     
  10. saladin

    saladin Chillin' With My Peeps

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    A difference in words. lol.

    In your second question to gallorojo:
    All our cocks SHOULD have yellow/gold in the hackle. They are NOT a solid coloration.
     

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