does anybody know how lemon cuckoo is carried in orpingtons?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by poultry kingdom, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. poultry kingdom

    poultry kingdom New Egg

    3
    0
    7
    Nov 18, 2013
    I have a lemon cuckoo orp roo and a buff orp hen. I'm trying to get an idea what will result from the cross before I do it. Is the lemon cuckoo recessive? Thanks.
     
  2. loveourbirds

    loveourbirds Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,857
    264
    198
    Mar 27, 2013
    waverly ohio
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  3. loveourbirds

    loveourbirds Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,857
    264
    198
    Mar 27, 2013
    waverly ohio
    the best way to explain it is, hens require 2 barring genes to be barred, roosters only need 1. a rooster with 2 barring genes is "double barred".

    over a period of time the darker color tends to lighten when messing with barring genes. so always breed for some to come out non barred and cross them back in.
     
  4. Old Rando

    Old Rando Chillin' With My Peeps

    222
    19
    121
    Dec 5, 2008
    Southern Indiana
    Hens can only have one copy of the barring gene. Males can have one copy or two.
     
  5. loveourbirds

    loveourbirds Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,857
    264
    198
    Mar 27, 2013
    waverly ohio
    im really trying to figure out how to explain this. feel free to jump in LOL.

    in your case you will yield 25% barred roosters and 25% barred hens, if your rooster is single barred.

    if you used a barred hen and a non barred rooster, only the males would be barred.

    im not an expert in genes, but i will attempt to put this in terms that makes it easier. when breeding, a barred hen only gives on copy of her barring genes to the egg. if the rooster is a solid color with no barring genes, he will not give the second copy needed to produce the barring in the females. this is how sex links are created, in the easiest terms i can think of to explain it.

    now if you take a rooster who is barred, and put him over a solid hen; he can give both of his barring genes to the pullet offspring. this would make a barred pullet. however when bred, she will still only give one copy of the barring gene to her offspring.

    so when breeding always use a barred rooster, barring in the hen just raises the ratio of barred chicks.

    i hope this makes since.
     
  6. poultry kingdom

    poultry kingdom New Egg

    3
    0
    7
    Nov 18, 2013
    Thanks everyone! I'm used to mammalian and plant genetics. Poultry genetics is completely new to me and you all explained this wonderfully. I think I understand now.
     
  7. Old Rando

    Old Rando Chillin' With My Peeps

    222
    19
    121
    Dec 5, 2008
    Southern Indiana
    Louveouerbirds really doesn't understand this at all. If your male barred bird is homozygous for the barring gene (two copies) It will pass on one copy to all of its offspring. If the female is non-barred then ALL offspring will be barred since barring is a dominant gene it will be expressed with just one copy. If the male is heterozygous ( one copy) for the barring gene then there is a 50% CHANCE of any offspring receiving the barring gene regardless of sex. Barred females pass on the barring gene only to their male offspring because it is linked to the male chromosome which is passed on from female to male offspring in birds. They cannot pass it on to female young. Females NEVER, NEVER have two copies of sex-linked barring. They only receive one copy from their father and none from their mother.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. loveourbirds

    loveourbirds Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,857
    264
    198
    Mar 27, 2013
    waverly ohio
    im not arguing, just trying to explain (you have a good "scientific definition" but its not entirely accurate.) - there is some barring transferred as a non dominate gene at times. i dont know how, as i said i dont claim to be an expert. where it shows up most commonly is on Ideal leghorns. breeding 2 white birds will sometimes give barred offspring. ive had and heard about, both males and females coming out barred.

    the way i explained it was how i was told to think about it, though not entirely accurate - it works. if you can explain the ideal leghorn thing without using terms like homozygous and heterozygous, it would be really helpful to someone who doesn't understand at all. most people dont understand the genes tied to certain chromosomes, so its easier to explain using this method. it also explains throwback genes commonly found in ideal leghorns, and sex links. you are referring more to autosexing which is different. if you research rhodebars for instance crossing rhode island red and barred rocks didnt always work accurately, so they mixed in a cross of brown sussex (not the one common in the US) and barred rock (brussars).

    either way you typically come out with the same outcome.

    from this website: http://www.diyseattle.com/chickens/barred-gene-use-in-chickens/
    "Taking a barred male with one barring gene and crossing it to a solid colored female will produce 25% barred makes with one barring gene and 25% barred females. The remaining 50% of the birds will be of a solid color"

    that website actually explains it pretty well, rather than taking our argumentative words for it [​IMG]


    on the other end of this, if you plan on doing this cross; it is best to use english buff orpingtons. if you use an american buff orpington you will decrease the value of the offspring, until you can cull and get the english traits.
     
  9. donrae

    donrae Hopelessly Addicted Premium Member

    31,452
    3,536
    538
    Jun 18, 2010
    Southern Oregon
    I think I can explain the leghorn thing with two words---dominant white. It hides barring and pretty much everything else, and a good reason why leghorns aren't used in sex link crosses. Has absolutely nothing to do with the barring gene, just covers it up. Rando's explanation was correct on which bird, male or female, passes which gene to which gender offspring.
     
  10. loveourbirds

    loveourbirds Chillin' With My Peeps

    2,857
    264
    198
    Mar 27, 2013
    waverly ohio
    but again, 2 chickens with dominate white gene (not silver gene used in sex linking) are creating a barred chicken. barred is supposed to be a dominate gene so barring should also be present. if the white gene is dominate over the barred, then the barred should not throw back at any more than 25% or so. ive seen a pure white leghorn rooster over an ideal hen throw nearly all barred.

    i have also had a case where a silver gene white rock bred a black sex link hen (rir over barred rock), and some of the offspring came out barred. i was new to chickens, so i cant say if there was a sex link to the trait in this case.

    i understand what you are trying to say, but a hen can carry the barring gene as a non expressed gene on the z chromosome. i think its labeled as b- but i cannot remember for sure. it could be the relation of the dominate white. and i guess in the black sex links it could be covered by a dominate red gene, but they will throw off to an extent. it may be that the silver gene brings it back out i am not sure. regardless a barred gene can be present but not expressed.

    this is how the heritage poultry breeders association of america explains it: (sex link section)

    http://www.hpbaa.com/Genetics.html
    In the barring sex-link, you get black females displaying gold in the hackle feathers because crossing the barred bird with another bird cancels out the only barring gene in the female and takes the double barred male down to one barring gene.
     

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by