Does dewormer meds give chickens diahrrhea?

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by sstimmons, Aug 26, 2013.

  1. sstimmons

    sstimmons New Egg

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    So I gave my chickens dewormer meds yesterday in their water. Today seems that most of the 9 have very watery diahrrhea. Is that normal for de-worming meds? I used Safe Guard (3cc/gallon).

    Thanks in advance. They seem normal otherwise.

    Shannon
     
  2. chooks4life

    chooks4life Overrun With Chickens

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    Hello and welcome to the forum! :D

    I am a natural remedy practitioner, so I can't advise you on what's normal with chemicals. So take my little bit of info with that disclaimer. ;)

    In general, any decent medicine that kills worms should facilitate their removal (usually through diarrhea) because their rotting bodies remaining embedded in the bird's body is toxifying. Rarely fatal but just another little burden the bird does not need. Worming is best done around the full moon (I know, it sounds superstitious) because at this point most species of worms we know of leave the organs and tissues and move into the digestive tract to reproduce. This is when even the gentlest natural remedies will shift them.

    Chemicals that kill worms will have some impact in the birds as well. An upset or irritation to the digestive tract often results in diarrhea, which is the body's natural response, an attempt to quickly flush out toxins and therefore save itself from further harm. I would guess this is what has happened. However since I don't use those chemicals I can't tell you if it's normal. Best wishes.
     
  3. sstimmons

    sstimmons New Egg

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    Thank you. Are there more natural remedies for de-worming? I read that pumpkin seeds are only preventative, so I'm not sure what I would use if I am pretty sure they have worms. I'd love to use something natural.
     
  4. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member

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    I use Safeguard and I have never noticed them getting the runs after. If anything, the runs go away.

    -Kathy
     
  5. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member

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    And the amount you used is way less than what I use.

    -Kathy
     
  6. chooks4life

    chooks4life Overrun With Chickens

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    Quote: Pumpkin seeds are de-worming via much the same method as garlic is. Removing smaller species of worms is much easier than removing large adult tapeworms, which can cope with far more than they can. In the case of an established adult tapeworm it's good to use different methods. Raw grated carrot works through its high vitamin A levels (not toxic to the chicken but toxic to the parasites, another example of size-related tolerance levels) and also through its fibre, which harms any worms that try to eat it (rather like us trying to eat a telephone pole or any strong wood, as a comparison).

    Garlic, when fed raw, serves to make the chicken an inhospitable host for eternal and internal parasites by raising sulfur levels in flesh and bloodstream. Chickens can cope fine with that level of sulfur, and it speeds healing, decreases infections, and also protects against a lot of viral activity. But that same level of sulfur is toxic to smaller creatures like worms and lice. It takes a while of feeding it to the poultry for it to reach such levels, so if you've gotten in some heavily infested birds it's probably best to use more drastic methods first to decrease the populations while waiting for the slower treatment to kick in.

    With worms, I give the chooks things like tabasco sauce or cayenne in yogurt on wholemeal sandwiches every month (as an example, not as a rule... Sometimes I just add it to their general grain mix, or make up a special deworming treat feed with other health tonics added). It's best to do this in the few days approaching the full moon as this will get not just the adult worms present, but will also harm their eggs.

    The best way to achieve worm free stock is to raise them on natural methods from their first days so they are always inhospitable to parasites. Otherwise some nasty sorts can take hold unchallenged. If you buy adults who have not been raised on natural methods, they may have more serious types of worms present, i.e. lungworms, etc, which could threaten their lives if not taken care of swiftly. Many natural remedies are not particularly swift, but those that are take knowledge and experience, and are often not easy to get hold of unlike artificial alternatives, so in this case, if you think there are serious worm problems, it may be best to use chemicals to start with to ensure they're clear while you work on building natural immunity. I haven't used chemicals nor have I lost any birds to worms but I can't see your stock so I would hate to give you advice which would not apply to their current state of health.

    In birds I know are fairly healthy already, I would use wormwood for the more serious parasites in new stock (half a teaspoon or less of dried wormwood leaves per bird) for a period leading up to the full moon because like garlic this will infuse their bloodstream and flesh with properties toxic to the worms and any other internal or external parasites. With stock raised on an artificial diet, this can potentially sicken them too, since they're not as robust as naturally raised stock. I haven't seen it sicken them, but it's best to be cautious.

    A very good book to get to learn of natural remedies is an old one that's still sold cheaply online, called 'The Complete Herbal Handbook for Farm and Stable' by Juliette de Bairacli Levy.

    A lot of what she writes about is seemingly so simple that I've often dismissed it until I've decided to test it, tried it and found it works. She writes about various animal species and her book has helped save many lives with my animals of different species. She traveled the world researching and recording ancient natural remedies from many cultures. Most recently I have used her book to: treat a feral pup nearly dead from parvo; treat another pup against a highly virulent new form of parvo which killed its siblings; treat my sheep from toxicity, pulpy kidney, and other problems; treat organ failure including heart and liver; save animals in bad births; heal my cat with bladder disorders; treat many common illnesses and some serious ones among poultry; and treat myself with a few other health problems. Many of these animals came to me in a terrible state, near dead, and are now thriving. I highly recommend learning to use natural methods, even if you're skeptical (and who wouldn't be) ... Test it and know for sure, I reckon.

    One remedy she did not include, which I found out about by accident, is for advanced Blackhead in turkeys. (Healthy chickens never die from it).

    When the turkey's stopped eating, its poops are yellow and liquid, and it's lying down, give it a cup of raw cow's milk (unpasteurized) which has had the fat skimmed from the top and a teaspoon of honey mixed in. You might need to dip its beak in to make it drink but most go for it willingly. This works in the overwhelming majority of cases and they'll be back up on their feet within 24 hours and make a full recovery. There's some evidence to support the theory that feeding them cayenne in their diet prevents the life cycle of Blackhead from completing by damaging the worm eggs.

    Also, raw garlic fed to chicken chicks from day one will prevent any from dying from cocci, or even getting sick from it. Diet is a simple treatment for many diseases which we use unnecessary chemical treatments for. Tuberculosis in turkey chicks is treated by garlic but is prevented by hard-boiled eggs with dandelion or raw onion mixed in. Etc, there's a lot of natural ways to prevent and cure diseases, but you'll need to have a resource on hand to read through, and the book I mentioned is a great start. Best wishes.
     
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  7. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member

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    Quote: -Kathy
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  8. dawg53

    dawg53 Humble

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    I agree that you dont know what's normal with chemical wormers, and noted your disclaimer.
    Initially when a wormer is introduced, worms are either paralyzed or killed. They release from the intestinal lining and are absorbed as protein or are excreted in feces (depending on the wormload.) It is the worms feces that makes birds sick. An infestation of worms produces alot of feces causing toxicity to the bird and death can ensue.
    Also, a wormer such as piperazine (wazine) can cause a "blowout" of large roundworms in diarrhea (or none at all) and/or a blockage that could cause toxic dead worm overload, resulting in the death of a chicken. (Perhaps this is what you were referring to.) This is why I always recommend albendazole for initial wormings, it slowly kills all types of worms over several days, no blockages to worry about.
    Worms suck blood absorbing nutrients 24/7, full moon or no full moon. You're right about worms reproducing in the digestive tract...eggs are excreted in feces onto the soil, infective eggs will be picked up by chickens completing the worms lifecycle. Some types of eggs can survive in soil for years, even through extreme weather and temperature conditions.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  9. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain & Poop Inspector General Premium Member

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    I read up on piperazine in Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook, and while I'm no expert, I think there are much safer wormers one can use.

    -Kathy
     
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  10. dawg53

    dawg53 Humble

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    Fenbendazole and albendazole.
     

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