does partridge carry the columbian gene?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by onthespot, Nov 30, 2008.

  1. onthespot

    onthespot Deluxe Dozens

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    still wondering about how best to make mille fleur cochins. I have a mille fleur roo, and six mottled pullets, but someone gave me four partridge cochins and was wondering if those would help get columbian in the mix also, besides just the roo. Kev? Tad?
     
  2. Kev

    Kev Overrun With Chickens

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    Columbian is the name of a pattern mutation that restricts the black mainly to the hackles, tail and on the primaries.

    Visible examples of columbians are Light and Buff Brahmas(in silver and gold versions, respectively), Columbian Rocks etc.

    It is also present in a great many breeds or color patterns, but not so visibly, it is also in Buff Orpingtons, RIR, etc but you couldn't easily tell by just looking at them. It is used in these because it is an excellent aiding gene in keeping the breast and most of the body "clear"(free of miscellaneous lacing or markings).

    A partridge roo or BBR roo with a black breast does not have columbian. If columbian was added to either, they would be "turned" into a mostly solid buff/red bodied bird with black on hackles and tail.

    I don't remember all the different genes that make up for mille fleur though.. seems you are saying columbian is involved(would make sense for the clear body). So if this is correct, your mille fleur already has columbian in him. As I don't know the whole information about mille fleur pattern, can't answer your question much otherwise, sorry.
     
  3. onthespot

    onthespot Deluxe Dozens

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    Your answer was extremely helpful, Kev. Knowing that it clears up the breast will make it easier to remember and spot or know it isn't present. I just want you to know how much I appreciate your knowledge and how generous you are with sharing it. Thank you so much, Kev.
     
  4. Kev

    Kev Overrun With Chickens

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    Glad it helped and thanks for the kind words! [​IMG]

    Good luck with your project. They will be very popular birds.
     
  5. tadkerson

    tadkerson Chillin' With My Peeps

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    The following genes produce a mille.


    eWh/eWh , Co/Co, mo/mo, s+/s+ or s+/_.

    e+/e+ wild type and eb/eb will also produce a millie

    Tim
     
  6. onthespot

    onthespot Deluxe Dozens

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    Thanks for the equation, Tim. Could you break it down into English, I don't know all the shortcut signs for traits. I know mo/mo, and Co/Co. I don't know what the small e is, and am guessing Wh means wheaten. Also, don't know the small s+. Is there a site that spells out these abreviations and tells you what they mean?

    And Kev, you are close by. If I ever do get going on this color, I will share with you if you like.
     
  7. Kev

    Kev Overrun With Chickens

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    Thanks from me too, Tim.

    I'll English it for ya- he said milles are Wheaten based (eWh) and pure for Columbian(Co), mottle (mo) and gold (s+). Captial letters notifies this gene is dominant, and lower case letters denotes recessive. If you see a + next to a letter, it means this is the wild type gene- in other the gene found in the "wild birds". Ancestral gene if you will.

    You would do okay outcrossing with wheaten, or gold Columbian(not sure if they use another term in cochins- that would be the buff birds with black only on the hackles and tail). It is possible that the buff columbian cochins are also wheaten based but you will need to find out just to make sure.

    Very generous of you to offer. [​IMG] Perhaps someday we might do a trade or something.. (no cochins here though.. do have miscellaneous other birds)
     
  8. tadkerson

    tadkerson Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Onthespot,

    Cross the mille roo ( I am assuming he has good a pattern) with the mottled hens. You do not have to hatch very many (10). The offspring will be mottled like the hens. Then back cross the female offspring to the male. About half of the offspring from the second cross should be millie. Do a sibling cross-take the best female millie and cross her with the best male millie. You should get decent millie from the last cross. If you do not get good patterns on the offspring, then back cross the offspring from the sibling cross to the original millie roo parent.



    I am assuming the partridge are like the partridge rock and not partridge as in carrying the wild type or brown alleles. Do not use the partridge because they carry the patten gene. This will make the crossing more difficult.

    Tim
     
  9. onthespot

    onthespot Deluxe Dozens

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    Well... once again I have stumbled ahead of my info, luckily in the right direction... I have already hatched out some babies, about ten, LOL. looks like three roos for now, the rest look like pullets! They are feathered out and outside, but still babies. I am hoping in the spring they will lay. There is a member a reasonable drive from me who has extra mille fleur bantam cochin roos she will sell reasonably, so I will not even have to do father daughter breeding come spring if I get off my duff and go get one or two. From what I hear hers are from good stock, Tom Roebuck and the like. I am very happy with my F1 batch. My mille is better cushioned and footed and personality than my regular mottleds and has passed it on liberally. I am sure there are better marked roos out there, but this is the only egg that hatched from my hunnert dollar eggbid splurge last spring. Don't know what got a hold of me, but when I saw those milles, I just went NUTS! LOL I was bummed when only one hatched, but SO glad it was a roo! So, anyhow, this is the roo I am working with, since he is all I have. Recently I heard some of Ralph's milles had wry tail, and I am VERY happy to report this bird does not.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. bantyman

    bantyman Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Hey Kev [​IMG]
    From reading this post you have said to use a wheaton to make the millie fleur color In place of the wheaton,which seems kind of hard to find,could you use a partridge or maybe even a brown red to set the base color? If not then why? Thanx for any info Im not being a butt Im just looking for answers

    Mike [​IMG]
     

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