DOG FIGHT on our property, HELP!!! JRT R.I.P. 8/25/10 Post #78

Discussion in 'Other Pets & Livestock' started by chicksbestfriend, Aug 21, 2010.

  1. chicksbestfriend

    chicksbestfriend Songster

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    Jul 12, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    Okay, I am so over the dog fight.................. spent three hours tonight with the vet getting our little Jack Russel Terrier sewn up, $300 later! I had the 5 pits in the house, 2 youngest in their crates, 3 older ones loose. After the three older ones were done eating, one of them had pooped in the living room, so I let them all out to go the bathroom, which I always do, everynight. I was in the kitchen getting everything prepared for tomorrow BBQ and just getting ready to put dinner in the oven and I hear a commotion outside. Not a loud commotion. Dog #1 was barking, and Dog #2 was just ripping the Jack Russel apart! Dog #3 was standing off to the side trying to figure out what was going on, and our outside Lab was barking at Dog #1 and Dog #2. I started yelling at the dogs to back off, Dog #1 and Dog #3 walk away, but Dog #2 is just digging into the Jack Russels side. I grab the hose and manage to get Dog #2 off her with the blast of the hose. I round up the three to put in there kennel, putting Dog #1 in first, then Dog #3 and then Dog #2. Didn't notice that Dog #2 quickly ran into Dog #3's kennel and doghouse and when I went to shut the main gate to the kennels, Dog #2 comes charging out of Dog #3 doghouse, barking at Dog #1 and trying to fight him through the fence! I grabbed her away and got her in her own kennel. At first I thought that the Jack Russel was a goner, she just laid there without making a sound, but then gets up to move away further away once the other dogs are secure in their kennels. I swoop her up with two huge gouges in her and rush her to our vet. Her head resembled a pin cushion! The vet said her 2 wounds were serious kind, but not life threatening and we worked together to get her cleaned and sewn up! Of course, I got reamed from hubby for "allowing it to happen". Hubby is blaming Dog #1 though it was Dog #2, that did all the damage. I told him that I agree that Dog #1 may of instigated the thing, but he is not the one who damaged the other dog, it was Dog #2! Now he is telling me that only Dog #1 cannot ever come out of his kennel or he will shot him! I told him if Dog #1 can not come out, neither can Dog #2, because they worked together as a team, and Dog #2 did all the damage to the Jack Russel, not Dog #1. He then starts in on "your dogs", "my dogs" and I had to stop him there and let him know that that is alot of the problems we are having with the dogs; its not "his" or "mine" the dogs belong to us and we need to figure out what caused the fight! I am so boiling over right now, so I decide to go outside where the fight took place and see if there is anything that can help me figure out why. The Jack Russels house was completely knocked over so I went to pick up the roof to put back on the house and I see her bowl there 1/2 full of food. Hubby and I both know that Dog #2 is food agressive, she had snapped at both Dog #1 and Dog #3 before during eating time so I have to feed her in the living room, while Dog #1 and Dog #3 eat in kitchen. (Dog #1 and Dog #3 also share their food with each other, going from one bowl to the other, but cannot do so with Dog #2). So now I am not too sure that it was Dog #1 who started the fight, though he is usually the instigator as he is the pack leader. After my discovery, I come into the kitchen where hubby is laying next to the Jack Russel and tell him what I find outside and the "probable" cause to the fight and in his smart --- attitude, is like, "yah, okay, uh huh, sure, what ever you say, yup, it was Dog #2, yah, whatever". I take full responsibility for not being out there with the dogs,( I always accompany the dogs out, except for tonight, oops!) however, the Jack Russell doesnt ever have a bowl of food sitting around when I let them out, so of course it has never been an issue, up until today. Please give me your take on the situation because it is obvious that we are having a hard time coming to grips with the who, what, and why's! By the way, Dog #1 is the dad, Dog #2 is the daughter, and Dog #3 is the mother. Thanks for any feedback.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2010
  2. BorderKelpie

    BorderKelpie Songster

    Mar 1, 2009
    outside Dallas
    Ok, first - Thank Whatever Higher Up you wish to thank that you and your JacK Russell are ok.


    Now, crates are a dogs best friend.

    PM sent.
     
  3. lurky

    lurky Songster

    Jun 4, 2007
    Western MA
    It would be a responsible choice for the JR to be relocated. Thats a pretty unfair position for a small dog to be in.
     
  4. gavinandallison

    gavinandallison Songster

    Jul 25, 2010
    Matthews, NC.
    Maybe you need to thin out the pack............
     
  5. welsummerchicks

    welsummerchicks Songster

    Jul 26, 2010
    This is an animal welfare issue so deserves some comment.

    I agree with husband if he was saying it was a mistake to have two food aggressive dogs loose with food down.

    I disagree with him if his solution is keeping one dog in a kennel or if it comes out, shooting it. That would be a serious animal welfare issue if that is the plan.

    I disagree with you that deciding which one 'started it' is of any use. This is a pack dynamics situation. Because of that, I also think that without changes in training, management and creating a united authority, you will continue to have problems even if you put down these two dogs and get other dogs.

    Multiple dog owners don't usually have very good control of their dogs. There are little dust ups now and again. But most are among non-aggressive easy going dogs and all they are is dust ups. However, when you have dogs that are more aggressive or more tense, you need more control. When you walk in the room and say 'down', every single dog should freeze, shut its mouth and lie down, and fights should be few and far between because the dogs are taught that if they are food aggressive or aggressive to each other, they will get punished, with out fail, every single time, and in no uncertain terms. That's the level of control you need. You don't have that.

    The two that are known food aggressive, need to be dealt with very seriously. You could get a professional trainer involved. That might be a good idea since both you and your husband seem to be taking very emotional positions in the matter and opposing each other rather than formulating a plan. You probably need an outside expert to step in and put aside some of that emotion. A professional can evaluate the dogs and advise if the dogs need to be trained, neutered, or put down.

    How successfully the behavior can be eliminated depends a lot on how the dogs are handled and dealt with day to day, but also their innate temperaments, how long this has gone on for, etc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
  6. FireTigeris

    FireTigeris Tyger! Tyger! burning bright

    Get another set of kennels, cement or bolt or secure them down, feed each dog closed in these food kennels, all at the same time... only put the food they can eat at once in, remove any uneaten food in 30 minutes - keep then all crated till everyone is done, release them in order of good behavior.

    Release one at a time and do obedience training for 10 minuets each dog, each feeding...Do not allow them to ignore the training time with you... if you don't have time hire someone to help, if you don't have money to hirer someone to help train, place your dogs out.

    Teach food refusal (you should not do this yourself on Dog #2 you will get hurt- bad and the dow will learn it can win aginst humans which is a life ending lesson)
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
  7. drdoolittle

    drdoolittle Songster

    Jul 30, 2010
    NE Indiana
    Too many dogs in one home. I know, reputable rescues have more than this at times, BUT there is always someone supervising the dogs when they are out of kennels and together. I have a feeling that your dogs are not getting enough individual attention and mental stimulation. I really think you are in way over your head, and while it seems you are doing a service to these animals by providing a home for them, you need to stop and evaluate the quality of their lives. If you knew there were food aggression issues, you should have been 100% sure there was no food whatsoever out there before you let those dogs out-----and you should have stayed out there with them. Can't help but seem harsh--------it was an accident waiting to happen.[​IMG]
     
  8. cjdmashley

    cjdmashley Songster

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    Jul 29, 2010
    Vermont
    sorry, but must agree with Welsummerchicks. In most cases these issues are not just the fault of the animal but the inability of the owner to properly manage an animals temperment/needs.
     
  9. Msbear

    Msbear Fancy Banties

    4,590
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    May 8, 2008
    Sharpsburg, MD.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. welsummerchicks

    welsummerchicks Songster

    Jul 26, 2010
    I respectfully disagree with kenneling more being the long term or overall solution. The dogs need to learn to get along together in an open area.

    I know a good many people who have multiple dogs who should not. I don't think people realize that they are taking on the role of a pack leader when they get multiple dogs. The old saying is 'One dog is man's best friend, two dogs is who the heck are YOU' (YOU being the owner).

    I don't think they know what is involved. When someone tells them, they aren't willing to step up to the plate or don't want to hear it. "It's too mean", "I want them to all get along because they LOVE each other" (or a variant, 'because they love ME').

    I knew one lady who turned herself around (because it really is an owner issue, not a dog issue, even though a bunch of laid back dogs might get on well without a strong leader).

    She got electric collars for her four dogs and dialed 'em up on high. They were only out together when she was supervising, and they were all in one exercise area that was fenced, no food down, no toys (not to start with anyway, mwa ha ha). They could not hide or get away from her, or get one dog in a corner that she could not see them. Nothing in the area to obstruct her vision of what was happening.

    Any time a dog snarled, lifted its lip, bared its teeth, lunged or stared down another dog, it got zapped. She did not read, talk on the phone, or watch tv, or talk to anyone. She WATCHED. That was all she did. Watched body language. Nothing got past her.

    She eventually got to where all four dogs ate out of bowls set rim to rim, quietly, without a peep. Played in the exercise area, ran around, watched what was going down the street, all without a single growl, lifted lip, or 'macho stance'.

    In other words, she became the pack leader.

    She told me, and I believe it, that each dog got shocked ONCE for each other dog. ONLY ONCE.

    Not only that, she said aggression against visitor's dogs and passing dogs was put to an end. Anyone could drop by while walking their dogs or stand over the fence and gab. If another dog tried to 'instigate', her dogs would look over at her, wag their tail at her, and walk away.

    I've also visited a few homes where electric collars were not used.

    A friend of mine had an aggressive dog. Whenever the dog growled or lifted its lip, he'd LEAP on the dog, put it on its back and scream at it and shake it. When the dog laid still, he'd quit. Here we were in the middle of a child's birthday party, we're all eating ice cream and we would hear this, 'RAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!' and see him leap on this dog.

    People argue over 'what is the best techique', the above, the collar or other. What is best is what works consistently, and resolves the problem, and the owner can carry out without fail.

    Neutering is also a very good solution, but training is usually still needed.

    In other words, without a pack leader that puts the hammer down, every dog is constantly trying to jockey for the position of pack leader.

    One thing I know for sure, this is a problem we either resolve or euthanize. This is not a problem to pass along to a rescue group or some unsuspecting new owner.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010

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