Dog with false preg....maybe!

[Tigertrea]

Ok...a little back info...

We have been in to showing, sled training and breeding for nearly 25yrs now. We have had false pgs in the past and it was no big deal really. BUT....

About 4yrs ago my dad started feeding a new food. Since then we have had 1 successful breeding and litter. the food is the only thing we can pin it on. We have done vaginal culutres, brucella testing, pregesterone testing to time breedings, A.I.s, smears....about everything we could do to find a reason or help get a good breeding. Our females even "refused" breeding for the most part. The only breeding we did get took 2 people to hold the female! Even the heat cycles have been "wrong" for years. The food my dad was feeding contained farm-raised salmon. Farm raised salmon is feed hormones so that, if they get loose, they cannot reproduce.

A month after changing foods we had a female come into season. She accepted 3 breedings easily. This encouraged us. I would not have believed the food could affect them so much but, it seemed like this was the case. The last time we tried to breed this female she was wretched, she refused to stand, she did acrobatics we'd never seen before!

Her last due date (based on 62days) is today. Last week she lost all her belly hair, her mammary glands began to look fuller and she was nesting. Sunday she didn't eat and it looked like she was thinking of going into labour. 24hrs later, nothing. She actually came out of her whelping pen and started to play with the other dogs.

Now we are very discouraged. The stud is proven, he has had litters with quite a few females so far.

Again....I have a but! Our litter about 5yrs ago we actually did a "planned" c-section. The female was looking barely preg, acting almost normal and was at 65 days. We X-rayed and sure enough there were pups. It was Dec 22nd, the vet I work for was going away for Christmas and the vet who was on-shift most of the holiday time at our local emerg clinic was one I knew but, had never done surgery on my dogs. So, we decided to do her c-section the next day.

the long and short....

Experiences with overdue? With falsies? Breeding issues.

We have discussed these issues with many of our Siberian Husky friends. They are as stumped as us!

 

[Squawkbox]

.

 

[Redyre Rotties]

I would want an exray, and I mean right now. I'm sorry i did not open this post earlier today. Get to the vet and see FOR CERTAIN if there are actually puppies in her asap.

 

[FlaRocky]

X 10 Get to the vet now..... Let us know what happens, sending a little prayer you way that all is well with her....

Maye

 

[Tigertrea]

My dad and I talked about it, I called my work and talked to my boss (I'm a vet tech lol). We have decided to wait another few days. We will x-ray either tomorrow or Friday if no labour.

Her temp is 100.0.......maybe doing the drop to 98 then back up thing. (never fails does it LOL) My dad felt what he believes is a pup today, maybe 2.

In my research for out 68 day litter (My dad swears it was 68 days) we pulled out notes on Reproduction from University that a prof had given him about 10yrs before (WOW, that is a long time now....nearly 15yrs!). But it, as well as 2 other vets I talked to (yep, I am paranoid lol) said 70days is the "max" they should be allowed to go. (My dad remembers these things, I have to look them up again all the time!)

I have my dad keeping a very, very close eye on her. Taking her temp before bed tonight then again in the morning, and calling me. If nothing happens tomorrow I will call my work and get her in for an x-ray. At least I know she is not running a temp. She is eating like most of ours do at this point (hording then going back later), she will not tolerate one of the dogs in the house near her whelping pen, she is "happy". Not as bouncy as she is "normally" but, not acting sick at all.

Between my dad and I we reminded ourselves....nature often knows what it is doing. Though, this may be the litter that changes our "no reason to x-ray before" opinion. (We always x-ray after to ensure she is empty) The stress is killing us!

 

[Redyre Rotties]

Let's then hope it does not kill your ***** too. If she has dead putrefying puppies in her, by the time you figure that out by waiting, it will be way too late.

What is most concerning to me is that her temp went down, she showed nesting/pre whelping behavior, and then stopped.

 

[sourland]

Let's then hope it does not kill your ***** too. If she has dead putrefying puppies in her, by the time you figure that out by waiting, it will be way too late.

What is most concerning to me is that her temp went down, she showed nesting/pre whelping behavior, and then stopped.

X 2 It is not unusual for b=tches to go beyond the 'normal' 63 days when carrying small numbers of pups, but the apparent start and stop of whelping procedure concerns me. Good luck.

 

[Tigertrea]

I will not kill my girl. She has no infection at this point. She is feeling as good as she did a week ago (like any female near whelping) , and has no temp.

Actually "braxton hicks" are common in dogs as well as humans also.

She will be going in for x-ray tomorrow morning if no labour before that. She is nesting again today and still has milk.

Not even sure what an x-ray would change what we are doing at this point. If I had an ultrasound at work that would ROCK though! X-ray will only show if there are pups. If there are not then we can stop worrying. If there are, we will still wait until 68-70 days before C-section...Monday at the earliest. X-ray will not show movement or even if pups are dead/alive. With all the possible differences in fetal position, placenta size/shape and amount of amniotic fluid, knowing that a pup is dead and "beginning" to decay is not really possible to judge. Now, if they have been dead for weeks, that may be different...but, then she'd already be in distress.

These are all the things I have discussed with my Vet Tech associates then passed onto my dad and he had "confirmed" by the owner of the stud. After thinking rationally and scientifically we seem to have calmed down on the worry.....a little! I still want to check to see if there is anything there no later than 66 days, (which happens to be the day I did an x-ray with the last female who pulled this on us....I just realized that lol)

Thank you all for your concern though! It has made me research everything again....(that means clean out the storage room and find my vet/vet tech texts LOL)

 

[Redyre Rotties]

Book learning is great. There is no substitute for hands on, however. Most vets are not breeders, and have little to no actual breeding experience.

I wish you all the best, but I just don't understand why people don't do ovulation timing for one, to eliminate the huge 2 week whelping window, and I cannot understand why you would not be tripping over yourself to see if there are puppies in her or not.

Good luck.

 

[dainerra]

Most breeders I know start checking for the temperature drop 2-3 days before they expect labor to begin. They check every 12 hours because sometimes the temp change is fast and only checking once a day you might miss it