domestic cats the best pest protectors?

[jerseygirl1]

Quote:
Illegal in most States ,if you let your cat kill rabbits, squirrels,and etc.

The issue of cats—in particular, cats that roam outdoors—is one of the things that separates true environmentalists from many cat lovers and animal rights advocates. There’s just no getting around the fact that in the US alone, house cats kill half a billion wild birds annually.
Don’t Wild Birds Have A Right To Life?
First off, that bell your Aunt Judy puts around her pet’s neck, while it may ease her conscience about letting her cat wander outdoors, probably has not saved the life of a single bird. That’s because unlike some noises—the cracking of a branch, for instance, or the alarmed screech of another bird—the tinkle of a bell just does not say danger to a bird.

And, unless you’re in North Africa, where domestic felines evolved, cats are not “just another animal doing what animals are supposed to do, out there in the ecosystem.” They’re not a natural part of the ecosystem because they didn’t evolve in the ecosystem, and the creatures that are part of the ecosystem—birds in particular—don’t have sufficient natural defenses to protect themselves and their young against them. As a result, according to American Bird Conservancy estimates, in the US alone 150 million outdoor cats slaughter an estimated half a billion to one billion birds a year. It goes almost without saying that many bird species face daunting environmental challenges even without the serious threat of an invasive and very efficient alien predator.

What are the solutions? One of them is to keep pet cats indoors. Another is to spay or neuter them so that they do not continue to reproduce beyond control.

Unfortunately, not all cats have owners who can keep them under control. In fact, many of the most environmentally destructive cats are feral. My good friend, Ted Williams, in his most recent Incite column for Audubon Magazine, has a lot of excellent information on the problem of domestic

Per NY State Division of Fisheries and Wildlife , it's illegal if I do it, (ie, kill squirrels, mice, rabbits) but very legal if my cat does

Go figure

 

[akcountrygrrl]

Quote:
Keep the ravens; they will chase off the hawks.

The ravens kill more of my animals than any other predator I've seen. The hawks won't try to kill quail and rabbits through 1" x 2" welded wire but the ravens will. The hawks won't kill fullgrown Pekin ducks or African geese, the ravens will. Not to mention that the ravens steal eggs.

 

[animals1981]

Quote:
She's not really "guarding" anything.
She's hunting., and would have behaved the same even if the chickens weren't there at all

They are totally different behaviors.
Odds are good if you had small chicks, she'd kill them too.

I read somewhere that Siamese cats where bred as "guard cats" to protect gems in the temples in Tibet. They worked better then the mastiffs because the dogs could be bribed with food. No way to validate this, but I thought it was cool.

The rest of the story is that they supposedly stared at the gems too long, and that's how they became cross-eyed

That's a myth. They were CALLED "guard cats" but never really were.

They were mainly there to kill rats and mice, since the Buddhist monks lived in the monastery/temple complex, and stored food there​

so her pulling the possem down by its tail and chasing it off was hunting?




i agree tho cats do damage wildlife some of them do at least a lot dont have the skills to catch small birds but i mean we are all poultry keepers whhich attracts rats weasels mice and not having a cats around to scare and deal with them it would just be gross unsafe for our birds and us as these pests spread sickness to humans also

cats did a lot of good work during the plague my friend got rid of his barn cats now is overrun with rats it is very disgusting there now the musckovy ducks he has dont even attempt to drive off the rats they let the rats eat out fo their dish!


on the thing with hawks a hawk often is careful where it kills something because when its on prey it is open to attack from behind so if there is a cat or fox around a hawk will probably look some place else for an easy meal where it is not at risk

also in all my life of keeping cats they have never killed a pet of mine they know what is a house pet and what is a wild animal i use to bring in day old baby chicks and put them in an open box in my cat room the cats never bothered the chicks the chicks began to fly and the cats would ignore it they are not stupid but those same cats did kill a robin with a broken wing i held on to before wildlife rescue got there never underestimate how smart they are


i had one cat would watch my flock of chickens sometimes the flock was joined by a grouse the cat knew that was a bird out of place and probably a wild bird and she would go after it she would also go after crows that were mingling in with the chickens she could tell a pet bird from a wild one so easy

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

I have to disagree. So that cat in the video - if it caught and killed the fox it would have eaten it?
No, my cat does both - he hunts the little varmints but he does protect his territory just like a dog.

Territorial behavior is not the same as "guarding" behavior.
If you think a cat is "good protection" you'll be very sorry when the first large DOG shows up to kill your livestock

He's not quite protecting the chickens

That's my whole point.
He's not "guarding" anything other than some territory​

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

so her pulling the possem down by its tail and chasing it off was hunting

Probably. It's hunting BEHAVIOR
She probably thought it was a HUGE mouse, and would have killed it if she could.

Cats will also attack other animals if they feel threatened.
Thats DEFENSIVE behavior, and has nothing to do with guarding other animals​

 

[Catstar68]

Quote:
Territorial behavior is not the same as "guarding" behavior.
If you think a cat is "good protection" you'll be very sorry when the first large DOG shows up to kill your livestock

He's not quite protecting the chickens

That's my whole point.
He's not "guarding" anything other than some territory​

So, what is the difference? IMHO all that 'guarding behavior' is is the natural territorial instinct of an animal harnessed by humans for their own gain. Does Mr. GSD thinks "My job is to look after these chickens because, though I feel no personal attachment to them and would rather be napping, they belong to this guy who feeds me so I feel obligated to make sure nothing happens to them?" or is it more "These chickens are on my territory, the territory that I've plainly marked all around with urine, and everything within the pee-boundries belongs to me and dangit if I'm letting anything set foot in here! The nerve!"

Like I said, I suspect that is what the majority of dogs not bred and exclusively trained as livestock protectors do - just protect their little piece of territory.

As long as the livestock is unmolested and nobody steals the TV, I doubt most people would care about the guardian's psychological motivation.

 

[babyblue]

As long as the livestock is unmolested and nobody steals the TV, I doubt most people would care about the guardian's psychological motivation.

best line of my morning​

 

[dragonjaze]

As long as the livestock is unmolested and nobody steals the TV, I doubt most people would care about the guardian's psychological motivation

ROFL!! you just about made me spit my coffee all over my monitor at work....which is a sure sign that I'm not working!!​

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

So, what is the difference? IMHO all that 'guarding behavior' is is the natural territorial instinct of an animal harnessed by humans for their own gain. Does Mr. GSD thinks "My job is to look after these chickens because, though I feel no personal attachment to them and would rather be napping, they belong to this guy who feeds me so I feel obligated to make sure nothing happens to them?" or is it more "These chickens are on my territory, the territory that I've plainly marked all around with urine, and everything within the pee-boundries belongs to me and dangit if I'm letting anything set foot in here! The nerve!"

The difference is a TRUE "guardian" animal bonds to the livestock and NOT the territory.
A territorial animal won't care if the chickens leave or not, since it will stay with the territory.
A true guardian anamal would go with the chickens or other animals, and it wouldn't matter where they happened to be


"Mr GSD" couldn't care less about the chickens safety.
He's simply been trained to leave them alone himself.

There may be some isolated instances of agressive cats chasing foxes, but the majority of cats would run away from any canine.

To suggest that cats in general are "good protectors" simply isn't true
To feel some sense of "security" against predators simply because you have a cat wouldn't be prudent​

 

[Catstar68]

Quote:
The difference is a TRUE "guardian" animal bonds to the livestock and NOT the territory.
A territorial animal won't care if the chickens leave or not, since it will stay with the territory.
A true guardian anamal would go with the chickens or other animals, and it wouldn't matter where they happened to be


"Mr GSD" couldn't care less about the chickens safety.
He's simply been trained to leave them alone himself.

There may be some isolated instances of aggressive cats chasing foxes, but the majority of cats would run away from any canine.

To suggest that cats in general are "good protectors" simply isn't true
To feel some sense of "security" against predators simply because you have a cat wouldn't be prudent

Since you are in the business of selling livestock guardian dogs, I understand your point of view. The OP stated 'pest' protection not necessarily 'predator' protection, though some pests do cross the line. No one thinks for a minute that there is a cat alive who will do as good a job of protecting a flock from a large predator as a bred and trained guardian dog. That would be silly.
Is my cat the best protector I could get?

Heck no! His territorial nature is just a bonus that came to light over the course of time. I have little time for a dog and if the mice levels are low that is all that matters to me. I take precautions and I never had a predator problem - ever. Just lucky, I guess.