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Discussion in 'Ducks' started by Henk69, May 17, 2009.
Any duck genetics specialists on this board?
Have a few burning questions...
Go ahead and post your questions. You never know who might be able to answer.
First, does anyone know the genotype of the butterscotch as in call duck.
Is it the same as the saxony color?
Second, what effect has buff dilution on the various colors.
Is the silver appleyard a combination of "restricted mallard" and "light phase"?
Rephrase: If you cross an appleyard with a wildtype/mallard, how does that look?
Does anyone know of a good duck genetics website?
Finally what does a splash duck look like. I mean an all black duck with 2 doses of blue dilution? Picture please...
Okay, I will try to answer to the best of my ability. I do not raise Calls, but I have raised all of the other bantam ducks for several years now. The information below is in part from Holderread's and in part from a genotype chart I got from someone that breeds several Call varieties and is accurate to the best of my knowledge.
1. The genotype for Butterscotch is m+/m+ li/li Bl/Bl.
2. Butterscotch is basically a Saxony color (or very similar). Saxony is M+/M+ li/li Bl/Bl.
3. Yes, Appleyard is restricted Mallard and light phase, genotype MR/MR li/li.
4. I have heard that Appleyard was used in part to develop Butterscotch in Calls.
5. I have never bred Appleyard to Grey, but according to Dave Holderread, the Restricted pattern is dominant. Light phase is recessive. If this is true, the F1 offspring should be of the wild type with restricted pattern phenotype and carry the light phase genotype.
6. As far as Splash in ducks, it is usually not termed "splash" as it would be in chickens. The most similar color to the Andalusian blue in chickens would be the Blue of the Blue Swedish and Extended Black. As with chickens, this color produces a combination of Blue, Black, and Splash (which seems to more often be called Silver in ducks). Blue dilution not in the presence of Extended Black does not at all produce the same results.
7. On the Buff dilution, did you mean the Buff color or just the Buff dilution? If just the Buff dilution, according to Holderread, it dilutes black pigment to medium brown.
I hope the info helps. It is all to the best of my knowledge. Maybe someone that breeds Calls can elaborate. I don't know any duck genetics websites unfortunately.
Wow! Great info!
@ 1 and 2. Do you mean the same with m+ and M+? Must be because + is the wildtype.
@ 5 That would mean that in the crosslings the extended claret of the (appleyard) male would be normal again.
@ 6 Problem is that a lot of coloraspects in ducks are called "silver".
I have trouble distinguishing 1 dose of blue dilution and 2 doses of blue dilution on non-extended black eg. butterscotch or pastel/apricot call (never seen 2 doses on extended black hence my splash question). What are the give away signs? The females?
@ 7 I meant the sexlinked buff dilution mutation. Is it common?
Many thanks for this great info!
Thank you for the nice comments! I have been busy and completely forgot about this thread.
The m+ is the wild type mallard pattern. One list of color genotypes I have has the uppercase M+, but I am sure they meant the same thing as m+.
On the claret of the Appleyard male, I am not sure. I have never crossed them back to Grey, so I am not sure to what extent the light phase affects the appearance as opposed to the restricted pattern.
On the question of the color Silver, it is confusing, isn't it? I wish we had some Call breeders that might be able to elaborate more on colors that are Call specific since a lot of these colors are most often in reference to Calls.
It is probably too vast a topic to cover in one thread. For example, in Australian Spotteds (a breed that I raise), one blue dilution results in the Blue-Headed and two blue-dilution results in the Silver Head. In Mallards and some other ducks, one blue dilution is Blue Fawn, two blue dilutions is Pastel. In the Snowy series, several colors are instead called "Silver" (and the US colors are sometimes referred to differently as well). It can get very confusing.
As far as the sex-linked buff dilution, I think it is pretty common. Any drake that carries two buff (or brown) dilution genes can be mated to grey or black females in a sex-linked mating. There are several breeds in which this type of mating can be done.
Anyway, I hope this helps. I do have a list of genotypes that is too long to post here. If you want me to email it, just PM me your email address. Dave Holderread's book, "Raising Ducks", is also a great reference.