Dumb question about DE

Discussion in 'Feeding & Watering Your Flock' started by KBlue, Dec 30, 2011.

  1. KBlue

    KBlue Songster

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    Why do you need to use "food grade" DE with chickens? How is it different from "pool grade"? Why is that difference so important?

    Thanks!
     

  2. Judy

    Judy Crowing Premium Member

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    I believe pool grade is toxic (if memory serves.) Lots of info linked on the FAQ page about DE.
     
  3. Pool grade DE has been treated with chemicals and is consequently poisonous to animals (humans included). On top of that, it is not effective against bugs because it has been heat treated to form larger pieces for filtering pool water. Even though the food grade stuff doesn't have these problems, it is still a bad idea to breath it as it is carcinogenic to some degree. It can also cause eye irritation.
     
  4. WoodlandWoman

    WoodlandWoman Crowing

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    Pool grade is heat treated and it changes it so that it's a carcinogen in your lungs.
     

  5. Well, food grade diatomaceous earth is 89% silica, which is what is known as a "suspected carcinogen". It is also a drying agent and a lung and eye irritant. So even food grade, which hasn't been chemically treated, is not the best thing to breath too much of. I'd still try to be careful, even around food grade.
     
  6. Bear Foot Farm

    Bear Foot Farm Crowing

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    Pool grade is heat treated and it changes it so that it's a carcinogen in your lungs.

    That's the correct answer

    It changes the crystalline form of the Silica and makes it more hazardous.

    It's not "toxic" or "treated with chemicals"​
     
  7. KBlue

    KBlue Songster

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    got it.

    thanks again!
     

  8. Bear Foot Farm

    Bear Foot Farm Crowing

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    ICallMyselfCherie'

    Bear Foot Farm]

    Pool grade is heat treated and it changes it so that it's a carcinogen in your lungs.

    That's the correct answer

    It changes the crystalline form of the Silica and makes it more hazardous.

    It's not "toxic" or "treated with chemicals"

    Pool grade diatomaceous earth is treated with chemicals.

    Pool grade diatomaceous earth is toxic if ingested.

    You're getting all your info from sites trying to SELL you food grade DE

    Try using some unbiased sources and you get the truth

    DE itself is totally INERT.
    It is not "toxic" in any way.

    http://www.reade.com/contact/659

    silicon dioxide is inert and harmless. When silica is ingested orally, it passes unchanged through the gastrointestinal tract, exiting in the feces, leaving no trace behind.

    Small pieces of silicon dioxide are equally harmless, as long as they are not large enough to mechanically obstruct the GI tract, or jagged enough to lacerate its lining. Silicon dioxide produces no fumes and is insoluble in vivo.

    It is indigestible, with zero nutritional value and zero toxicity.

    It's chemically the same thing as sand, and is the most common solid element in the Earth's crust.

    Over 90% of the Earth's crust is composed of silicate minerals, making silicon the second most abundant element in the earth's crust (about 28% by mass) after oxygen.

    It has 3 main components:

    The typical chemical composition of oven dried diatomaceous earth is 80 to 90% silica, with 2 to 4% alumina (attributed mostly to clay minerals) and 0.5 to 2% iron oxide.[1]

    Silica is most commonly found in nature as sand or quartz, as well as in the cell walls of diatoms.

    The danger in "Pool grade" comes from the crystalline form of silica produced when it's heated:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth

    The type of hazard posed by inhalation depends on the form of the silica.

    Crystalline silica poses a serious inhalation hazard because it can cause silicosis.

    Amorphous silica can cause dusty lungs, but does not carry the same degree of risk as crystalline silica.

    Natural or dried diatomite generally contains very low percentages of crystalline silica.

    Diatomite produced for pool filters is treated with high heat (calcining) and a fluxing agent (soda ash), causing the formerly amorphous silicon dioxide to assume its crystalline form

    If you want accurate facts, you have to get them from sources who are NOT trying to sell you their products​
     

  9. Quote:These sites that I listed were pet health sites. Where were they trying to sell me something?
    http://petsmedicalandhealth.wordpress.com/category/diseasesconditions/parasites-control/
    http://www.catfleaprotection.com/diatomaceous-earth.html

    But if you don't like my sources, that's fine, I'm happy to work with yours.

    Quote:
    silicon dioxide is inert and harmless. When silica is ingested orally, it passes unchanged through the gastrointestinal tract, exiting in the feces, leaving no trace behind.

    Small pieces of silicon dioxide are equally harmless, as long as they are not large enough to mechanically obstruct the GI tract, or jagged enough to lacerate its lining. Silicon dioxide produces no fumes and is insoluble in vivo.

    It is indigestible, with zero nutritional value and zero toxicity.

    It's chemically the same thing as sand, and is the most common solid element in the Earth's crust.

    Over 90% of the Earth's crust is composed of silicate minerals, making silicon the second most abundant element in the earth's crust (about 28% by mass) after oxygen.

    It has 3 main components:

    The typical chemical composition of oven dried diatomaceous earth is 80 to 90% silica, with 2 to 4% alumina (attributed mostly to clay minerals) and 0.5 to 2% iron oxide .[1]

    Silica is most commonly found in nature as sand or quartz, as well as in the cell walls of diatoms.

    All of this is immaterial because we weren't talking about "DE itself", we were talking about the dangers of pool grade DE.
    Read again:
    Quote:
    ICallMyselfCherie' :

    Pool grade DE has been treated with chemicals

    Now for your information that does pertain to pool grade DE.
    Quote:
    The type of hazard posed by inhalation depends on the form of the silica.

    Crystalline silica poses a serious inhalation hazard because it can cause silicosis.

    Amorphous silica can cause dusty lungs, but does not carry the same degree of risk as crystalline silica.

    Natural or dried diatomite generally contains very low percentages of crystalline silica.

    Diatomite produced for pool filters is treated with high heat (calcining) and a fluxing agent (soda ash), causing the formerly amorphous silicon dioxide to assume its crystalline form

    Ah, thank you for saving me the trouble of searching out a reference! Diatomite produced for pool filters is treated with soda ash, or sodium carbonate (Na2CO3), which is a chemical. Ergo, Diatomite produced for pool filters, or pool grade diatomaceous earth, is chemically treated.

    Here is sodium carbonate's MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet).
    http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927263

    Pay special attention to:
    Section 7: Handling and Storage
    Section 11: Toxicological Information.

    And aside from that reference to toxic effects of a substance that is used to treat pool grade DE, you also have repeatedly attested to the fact that pool grade DE is carcinogenic due to calcination. Although "carcinogenic" is not synonymous with "toxic", what does "toxic" mean to you?
    Here is one definition:
    toxic
    adjective Referring to a potentially dangerous chemical or substance.
    McGraw-Hill Concise Dictionary of Modern Medicine. [​IMG] 2002 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.

    Quote:And if you want to prove somebody wrong, you have to address their actual argument.​
     

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