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E-coli, Saminilla, Sour crop????

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by kaki143, Aug 24, 2013.

  1. kaki143

    kaki143 Out Of The Brooder

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    Aug 23, 2013
    San Francisco
    I need HELP figuring out what to do!!!!

    Hello. Please respond
    I’m new to posting but have been reading for days and gleaning much insight.

    My six year old bird has taken ill. She is not a layer since late last year and lives in a well ventilated 20x10 coop that is open to light and air year round with 2 other birds that are both doing fine.

    Butch has a squishy waterballon like crop The smell is not to bad and she is able to stand but has lost allot of weight. She had green Diarhea and now its dark black with traces of white.

    She is not eating for 2-3 days now. I have tube fed about 6 ML of blended scrambled egg. I also tube fed about 9 ML of probiotics and electrolytes with ACV.

    I spoke to a chicken rep in Modesto that told me that the best treatment was Acidified Copper Sulfate which I got and began administering last night at about 6 Mls every 2-3 hours.

    Some color is returned to her comb
    Diarrhea has changed from mostly white with Greenish black traces to mostly Greenish black with white traces. ther are no lumps or balls in the crop and it dose go down and then I reflate it with the ACS until i can here her gurgle then I back off and massage crop.

    The directions I found her suggest NO FOOD for the first 24 Hours. I cant bare that so she has some poached egg incase she gets interested but so far not more than a peck or two at that.

    Do you have any thoughts!!!! Please respond.

    I wonder what to do. Should I give ACV or no ACV, antibiotics or none

    if so can I use Tylan or terramycin(oxytetracycline) I have them on hand... what dose should I use!!!!

    HELP

    She still has waterbaloon crop,
    brown spots uniformly on the tip of her tongue no bumps just the discolor,
    pale comb and waddle comes and goes
    tired not moving in dresser drawer going on day 3
    diarrhea greenish black
    not any bad smell in beak
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2013
  2. Eggcessive

    Eggcessive Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

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    It seems that more people recommend ACV than not in sour crop. Monistat cream 1 ml in 1 ml water or 1/3 of a monistat suppository orally twice a day for several days is a popular remedy. It seems that this is a tough disease to cure. Most recommend not to feed grains but only soft foods like yogurt, egg, and applesauce, so I would stick to that.
     
  3. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain Premium Member

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    Sour crop or crop stasis is usually caused by something else, like a blockage due to cancer, ascites, EYP, egg binding, etc. You should get a glove, KY Jelly and do a cloacal exam.

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  4. Eggcessive

    Eggcessive Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

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    It seems that many people have crop problems when their chickens have cocci lately, not that this is the case here.
     
  5. kaki143

    kaki143 Out Of The Brooder

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    Aug 23, 2013
    San Francisco
    She's not laid eggs for almost a year so I don't think that it is a problem in the egg track. Also I don't feel anything harder swollen up there. I am wondering about the two medications I have Thylan and Terramycin. I am wondering if they will hurt her if I give them to her orally and if so what is the dose that I should mix them with water that I tube feed her with
     
  6. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain Premium Member

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    If you tube just water to her, does her crop clear overnight? Did you stick your finger in her vent to check for masses and cancer?

    -Kathy
     
  7. casportpony

    casportpony Team Tube Feeding Captain Premium Member

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    This is what cancer looks like and you would be able to feel it quite easily.



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  8. kaki143

    kaki143 Out Of The Brooder

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    Aug 23, 2013
    San Francisco
    Wow that's intense. no I have not been in her vent yet. She has just become ill in the past week so Ill try some remedies first before I poke up in her with my fingers. We are at day 2 of the acidified copper sulfate. It was mixed at 1/4 teaspoon to a gallon and I'm giving it 3 Ml's at a time orally with a syringe that reaches deep into the esophagus.
    Today I added Keefer with the syringe about 2 hours before or after the copper sulfate.


    Still giving liquid pro-biotics and electrolytes as she will take them.Wish I could find Nystatin, Medistatin is available on line from a company in Irvine but wont get here till Tuesday.
    Nystatin needs a script and the local bird vet wants me to pay upwards of 100 for the consult with labs to confirm diagnosis.

    She probably does not have a bad systemic bacterial infection like e-coli or Saminila because she is perkey not droopy and responsive just not eating, pooping white yellow liquid poop with mucus in it. and a water balloon crop that gurgles and sloshes when massaged.
     
  9. kaki143

    kaki143 Out Of The Brooder

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    Aug 23, 2013
    San Francisco
    I wanted to include this on the thread. Its my resonse to a PM from a user that suggested the following treatment and my response. I would appreciate it if those of you reading this would weigh in!!!

    She does not drink much on her own. She is slowly responding to the Acidified copper sulfate water that I'm giving her at 3 ML's every Hour or so.
    Color has returned to her comb and waddles and although she is not moving she is standing most of the day in the space I have for her with eyes open
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    I'm hoping for some Nystatin. I would hate to give the wrong AB and have been advised that she does not look ill enough to warrant one but this is my first time down this rode. she is sleeping indoors in my chest of drawers and I'm tending to her about every hour.
    Most of what I've read endorces Baytril as the reccomended AB.
    Just looked at the symptoms for fowl cholera
    "The most typical symptom, in chronic cases, is the swelling of the wattles. It is more frequent in resistant local breeds. Rather than a general infection, localized infections are more characteristic. These often occur in the respiratory tract including the sinuses and pneumatoics bones, hock joints, sternal bursa, foot pads, peritoneal cavity and oviducts.[10]"
    Doesn't seem like her.

    Found this on the LA dose info
    \[FONT=Garamond, Times, Serif]General or Unknown Disease Antibiotics[/FONT][FONT=Garamond, Times, Serif]:
    HPBAA advises that you seek the assistance of your State Veternarian for any unknown diseases.
    [/FONT]


    [FONT=Garamond, Times, Serif]Terramycin[/FONT][FONT=Garamond, Times, Serif]: [/FONT][FONT=Garamond, Times, Serif]Mix 1 tablespoon per gallon of water daily for 10 to 14 days minimum. Mix with Cranberry juice to help birds drink the solution.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Garamond, Times, Serif]LA-200/Duravet 72 200[/FONT][FONT=Garamond, Times, Serif]:[/FONT][FONT=Garamond, Times, Serif] Drop 1 cc orally & inject 1 cc intramuscular twice daily for 5 to 7 days. Broad spectrum time release antibiotic.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Garamond, Times, Serif]Then I found this[/FONT]
    Sulfadimethoxine
    (trade name Di-Methox, Albon) is a sulfonamide antibiotic. Albon is produced by Pfizer Animal Health and is available as a oral suspension, tablet or bolus. It is used to treat many infections including treatment of respiratory, urinary tract, enteric, and soft tissue infections.[5] It is most frequently used in veterinary medicine. Sulfadimethoxine inhibits bacterial synthesis of folic acid (pteroylglutamic acid) from para-aminobenzoic acid. It is also commonly used for the treatment of coccidiosis in many species.[1]

    Seems like blood in the stool would be an indication for this.???

    above pics show current poop.
     
  10. Eggcessive

    Eggcessive Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

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    I can't see the picture of stool that well, but if there is blood and not just intestinal lining, then yes, I would treat for cocci. Sulfadimethoxine is an antibiotic (sulfa drug) that treats many things plus some strains but not all of cocci. Corid (amprollium) is easier on the system, and treats all 9 strains of cocci in chickens. There isn't always blood in the stools with cocci, it depends on the strain.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2013

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