Ellie - 9/25 Update - Egg! Thread has med info in case helps others

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by jjthink, Sep 1, 2008.

  1. jjthink

    jjthink Overrun With Chickens

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    SYMPTOMS: Ellie is in hospital on baytril and fluids since 4:30 p.m. yesterday, Labor Day. Will find out at 9 a.m. this morning - Tuesday - whether she's still alive (vet told me to call at 9). I think she began watery discharge Sunday (didn't know it then but it retrospect found a very wet spot where I remember her sitting). She did lay an egg that day. Yesterday - Labor Day - she was fine in the a.m. - playing, digging - but by afternoon was lethargic - head drooping, eyes closed, more watery discharge like pee - small amounts of brown poo. One spoon's worth of yellow stuff not at same time as watery stuff. The vet does not know what's going on and I've been reading things half the night and don't know myself. When I talk to him at 9, if dear Ellie is still alive, and if the vet still mystified, I need to be able to help determnine what to do - what the likely suspects are. Help incredibly appreciated. Other details below, but this is the main stuff. Thx. JJ

    Labor Day:
    Some of you have come to know BJ roo. He's endured many losses, most recently Annie toward the end of July. I was able to get him a friend that same night - Ellie - from the same place Annie was from. These birds came from MMH not quite 2 years ago. Annie died of an apparent heart attack. Because BJ spent time with these birds in late 2006/2007 and never took ill, nor did they, it seemed like the safest place to draw from and so, Ellie is with BJ now.

    Ellie is now in hiding and looks miserable. She did lay an egg yesterday but it was slightly odd - a bit of extra "crumbs" at one end and a bit of a kind of translucent look at either end, tho the shell for the most part seemed nice and solid. She has constant access to oyster shell and layer feed. BJ's game bird maintenance food is also available to them and I do see her eating it sometimes. Hopefully she eats enough oyster shell to compensate for the lower calcium in that food. She free ranges hours each day and eats all manner of other things and gets a little fresh fruit and veggies and sunflower seed from yours truly. Normally looks the picture of health, as Annie did. Avia Charge 2000 in their water. ACV once a month or so - no Avia that day. Their coop is spotless, with fresh wood shavings always.

    Did the bath thing, and Tums this afternoon. Understandably, she appreciated neither.She's not in her normal nest but rather kind of hiding in a sheltered dark place so I know she doesn't feel well. I just can't have her die now too. 1. She is young and deserves to live 2. There's no place I know of to get another friend quickly for BJ and he plummets extremely quickly with loss. And I could add 3. If I spend one more minute on chicken crises, it will be the last straw with my jobs. They just don't understand.

    But I know you do. Any thoughts most welcome. BJ is standing right be her side, all worried.
    JJ

    She is standing but closing her eyes - broad daylight.. Why today? It's Labor Day. No vets are open, much less avian ones.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2008
  2. DuckLady

    DuckLady Administrator~~~ BYC Store Support Staff Member

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    There may not be much you can do. If there is a broken shell and you can get hold of it easily by going inside her vent, you can try to ease it out. Can you shoot some KY up in her oviduct and try to lube the shell good? That may help her to pass it.

    If it too far up in her, I would just try to keep her comfortable until you can get to a vet tomorrow.
    Keep trying the baths. Remember, the water needs to be very warm to relax her.

    There are many things that could have cause the egg to break in her. She could have hopped off the roose and misjudged and whacked her abdomen, if you have a roo, he may have been too rough. There are many things that could have heppened.
    I am sorry youare going through this.
     
  3. chickenlady

    chickenlady Chillin' With My Peeps

    Aug 28, 2007
    Stillwater, NJ
    It does sound as though an egg may have broken in there. I am sorry I dont have any advice to give on this right now. I wish you the best of luck with her and hopefully she will lay an egg tomorrow and it will correct her problem from today.

    As a side question here, why do you have game bird maintenance for them? As i recall, the maintenance is only 12% protein? Is the egg layer and the maintenance both crumbles? I'm asking that because you really dont want ellie eating just the maintenance and if one is pellets and one is crumbles, she may only pick one of them to eat.
     
  4. jjthink

    jjthink Overrun With Chickens

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    Hi Terrie and chickenlady,

    Thanks so very very much for being there. After making rounds of phone calls to every emergency facility I could find (response each time - bird people not in...), an avian vet actually returned my call on this Labor Day and let me bring her in on an emergency basis (yes, hundreds $$$ just for today...tomorrow will be a new chapter).

    He does not think an egg is stuck or broke, as least as far as he is able to feel and even tho he concurs it would have been the most likely culprit given how she presented.

    Just in the last hour plus, her head is dropping, eyes closed. Something hit her fast and hard. He has no idea what but has hospitalized her and is injecting Baytril and putting her on fluids.

    Ellie was playing and digging up a storm just this very morning. However, she did sit down for a bit yesterday afternoon (not in nest) before laying her egg - that's why I thought maybe an egg problem. But then the egg was okay and she seemed okay so no worries until today.

    He said if she shows no improvement by tomorrow on antibiotic and fluids then it's a complicated situation that would require all sorts of diagnostics to try to root out what's going on. I did tell him about the small amount of yellow stuff that came out (yet her poops were fine this morning) and I did tell him about the watery fluid coming out just before he called (and it happened again at his office).

    To see how fast she crashed I fear I won;t see her again alive. I don't know how BJ can go through this again. Already he's outside stressing, looking for her. I cannot go back to the same person where I got both Annie and Ellie. Ellie has only been here maybe 5 weeks. So many things - did she eat something poisonous, does she have some kind of mysterious illness. I've got to check with her former guardian to see when she was wormed. I'm sure she gave that basic care to her flock.

    [​IMG]:barnie
    JJ

    cl, the game bird maintenance is available so BJ roo can eat it and avoid having too much calcium (i.e. too much layer food) as some science has documented that this can cause serious problems for roos. I have been advised that hens dining on any of it can eat extra oyster shells to ensure they get the needed calcium. I do see Ellie eat layer food a lot and a bit of the game bird maintenance. She also eats sunflower seeds and lots of bugs - both good protein. I watch her eggs closely and up till now they've been in great shape.....
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2008
  5. chickenlady

    chickenlady Chillin' With My Peeps

    Aug 28, 2007
    Stillwater, NJ
    I'm so sorry to hear she has gotten worse. But I am glad a vet called you back. I can only come up with 2 different things that I know of that can cause watery yellowish droppings. 1. Fowl Cholera 2. Cocci Both diseases can come on with no symptoms. I sure hope the vet can diagnose and treat her. I'll be praying for your little girl. Best wishes.
     
  6. jjthink

    jjthink Overrun With Chickens

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    Quote:Thank you - afraid what that 9 a.m. call to the vet in the morning will reveal (that's when the vet said to call). The way she was crashing so fast, if the baytril is not the solution I don't think she'll still be alive in the morning.

    BJ is very worried, and lonely and depressed already [​IMG] She is his only companion.

    Been reading about various illnesses all night and it's mystifying........

    JJ
     
  7. dlhunicorn

    dlhunicorn Human Encyclopedia

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    Judy try offering (daily and free choice ) a good probiotic yogurt) ... also if you are noticing thin shells then give three drops of POLYVISOL Enfamil (unflavored) for a couple days as vit D3 is just as crucial to calcium absoprtion as the actual calcium itself. Poor BJ.
     
  8. jjthink

    jjthink Overrun With Chickens

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    Hi Diana, Thanks. If she rallies from this I am going to get her on that yogurt right away. Usually her shells are nice and hard. The only one that was tad odd (95% good with just the tips looking odd) was on Sunday and maybe because she was beginning to become ill from something else. No egg yesterday. If she is alive today her body will be trying to lay the next egg. She was too weak last night to lay an M&M, much less an egg. I will for sure give the POLYVISOL if I see any other eggs that seem like they might have a thin spot.

    I hope I get a chance to nurse her with these good things. It seems forever till 9 a.m. this morning, when the vet said to call. If Baytril wasn't what she needed (vet did not think she had an egg issue), I don't think she'll still be with us. The mind reels - did I inadvertently pick up a disease on my shoes 5 weeks ago at the feed store, did she eat something poisonous and if so, what then, is there something airborne that got her (there are no other nearby chickens but as we know, air travels far..),....The lethary and one yellow poo and the watery discharge (all of which happened yeesterday afternoon) are the only clues.

    Yes, poor BJ. I hear him crowing right now - amongst other things, he does that when he can't find his friend......JJ
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2008
  9. jjthink

    jjthink Overrun With Chickens

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    UPDATE:
    Just spoke with the vet's office. They say Ellie is up and somewhat alert. They said her crop is not emptying fast enough. And it was still pretty full this morning. How do I help her? Olive oil and bread? They said she's drinking a lot - probably because of all the water coming out the business end.

    Anyway, they said they could do blood work and x-ray if I wanted - recommended blood work first - I said okay - not sure if it'll point to anything, but...

    They think I should bring her home, keep her on baytril and then bring her back tonight if she doesn't look good when back on her own turf. I told them it was the afternoon when she crashed yesterday after looking just fine in the morning. But still they're thinking I would be able to judge her best in her own environment.

    She is due for an egg today, poor dear. Vet now wonders whether the yellow "poo" yesterday may now have been egg yolk since today's poos are normal. He does not feel an egg in her so where did it go...hopefully production just slowed down due to illness.

    It's all one big fat mystery.

    He's been giving her fluids, antibiotic and tube feeding.

    BJ is crowing his brains out trying to get word to her!
    JJ
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2008
  10. Zookeeper9000

    Zookeeper9000 Chillin' With My Peeps

    Mar 1, 2008
    Gladstone MI
    Hi just wanted to let you know that I am saying prayers for you and sure hope all is well with your young lady. Sorry that both you and BJ are going thru this, poor Ellie


    Edited for spelling error
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2008

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