Extended Black.....

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by mikden, Nov 17, 2010.

  1. mikden

    mikden Out Of The Brooder

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    Mar 1, 2010
    Shenandoah Valley
    Hello all, Very newbie question about genetics here.... Is there any way to tell if a rooster is Extended Black (E/E) without waiting for the results of breeding? I have a Black Orpington Rooster from a breeder of Black / Lav Orpingtons. I'm not sure of what constitutes vigor but he's definately a large handsome rooster, deep black with a green sheen, and fully mature a little over 10 lbs. His hatch brothers were Lav Orpington Roosters that were even larger than he is, the largest topping out at almost 13 lbs. When I culled them they dressed out like turkeys..... I would like to use him as my breeding rooster and was wondering about the possible genetic possibilities while dreaming of the spring breeding season. I'm not sure what the parents coloring was only that the line is Black/Lav/Splash and he had Lav brothers from the same hatch. My question is whether he may have part black/lav in his genes. Thanks, Mike:)
     
  2. TK Poultry

    TK Poultry Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 25, 2009
    Greencastle, Indiana
    I'm going to try to give you answer. You said that his brothers were Lavenders... This means that he is a split if they are from the same parents. If not he could just be a regular black orp. If we think back to high school biology we can do a simple punnett sqaure to figure all of this out. Do you know the color of the parents? That will determine what the genes are behind him. If he came from a Blue/Black/Lavender/Splash pen this could complicate things because most breeders recommend that you only mix lavender with black. (There is a whole thread on this very subject. You can go search for it).

    But lets assume that Parent A was a Black orp and Parent B was a Lavender Orp

    Then all of your offspring would have been 100% Black and carried but didn't express the Lavender gene

    Lets assume that Parent A was a Split to Lavender Black Orp and Parent B was a Lavender Orp

    Then half of your offspring would be (50%) would be Split to Lavender Blacks and 50% Lavender

    Then assume that Parent A and Parent B are both Lavender Orps

    then 100% of the offspring would be Lavender

    When you through the blue gene into the mix then you complicate things when you are recognizing colors.

    I don't think I answered the question very well but hope this clears the air a bit
     
  3. hinkjc

    hinkjc Overrun With Chickens Premium Member

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    Hi Mike, I haven't heard of too many breeding black/lav/splash. Are you sure your lavender are not blue? Blue and lavender are different genes and they work differently too.
     
  4. TK Poultry

    TK Poultry Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 25, 2009
    Greencastle, Indiana
    Quote:Good point! Its very easy to get them confused. Splashes and Lavenders are easily confused as well especially if the bird doesn't have any black or blue splashing. Pictures of him and the brothers would help
     
  5. mikden

    mikden Out Of The Brooder

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    (TK Poultry) Thanks for the info... I'm kinda leaning towards thinking that he's not a true Extended Black and your info seams to back that up. So you think that he probably carries both Black and Lav gene instead of Double Black? I wonder how that would mix with other colors of orpington? maybe buff.... I hope I'm right in assumeing that any mix with other black hens would produce mostly black. Any mix with any other black hens would'nt make Extended Black though would it? Sorry I'm just trying to reason it out in my head.

    (hinkjc) Sorry, I don't have a lot of info from the breeder I'm going from memory... The roos came from the same hatch supposedly, but I'm not sure if they came from multiple roosters or not. I did get 1 Solid Black Roo, and 3 Lav Roos from the hatch. I can confirm that the Roos were Lav and they matched pics on this site from other members Lav Orpingtons. I'm not sure of the splash it seemed to be what I remembered but I could be wrong. I have to admit to being confused easily on the splash/gene mix and the color genes in general. Thanks, Mike
     
  6. TK Poultry

    TK Poultry Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 25, 2009
    Greencastle, Indiana
    if you breed your black hens to your black rooster they would all be black. I'm not well versed on the Extended black subject I don't really use that. I really go by phenotypes most of the time. I do know the genotypes of most of my BBS birds but not all. I think by my understanding two blacks make an Extended black correct? But in the same breath you have to know the genotype of the parent bird if it was a BluexBlack then it would just be e/e correct? if you guy is split then breeding him to black girls would give you 50% splits but all black chicks no lavs.
     
  7. mikden

    mikden Out Of The Brooder

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    Mar 1, 2010
    Shenandoah Valley
    (tk poultry) I'm going to assume ( I know dangerous) that my Black Orp roo is mixed black/lav for possible breeding purposes, not to sell or show, just to be creative while breeding for eggs and meat. I'm playing with the ideas of possible mixes with my buff orpingtons and some black/lav hens I plan to purchase this spring. I really love the orpington breed and their demeanor. Not to mention the great eggs. I started with several hatchery breed hens and I definately favor the orpington's personality and other benefits. If I mixed the Black Orp roo with another black hen would I get any leaking or mix of the Lav gene or is black dominate? How about with a buff orp any possible mixing of the Lav and Buff as well as Black? Thanks, Mike
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010
  8. Chris09

    Chris09 Circle (M) Ranch

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    Quote:Do you mean Black/Blue/Splash?

    I never herd of a Black/Lav/Splash.

    Chris
     
  9. TK Poultry

    TK Poultry Chillin' With My Peeps

    May 25, 2009
    Greencastle, Indiana
    Lavender isn't leaky so with the blacks and lavs they all should be black with the buff I'm not sure what would come out I've never personally tried this. I do believe there is a buffxblack austrolorp on the show me your mutts thread i would assume it would look something like that
     
  10. TurtleFeathers

    TurtleFeathers Fear the Turtle!

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    By the Chesapeake Bay
    Quote:Not necessarily.

    If both parents were black split to lavender, there is a 25% chance that the rooster in question is just straight black, not split to anything. Of course, he would look exactly like the 50% of his siblings that were black split to lavender. The other 25% of his siblings would be visual lavender.
     

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