Feeding your flock amidst of feed shortages

saysfaa

Songster
Jul 1, 2017
896
1,921
241
Upper Midwest, USA
I'm not talking about dehorning - in goats, some are born naturally polled - which is to say - without horns. Forever. It was a trait that used to be selected for (by man - nature, obviously, does not favor goats missing their primary means of protection), but back in the middle of last century, the USDA published something about polled goats producing sterile offspring, and horns have been making a comback ever since. (except for pets)
Yes. I understood that. You have a lot more to choose from if you don't limit yourself to polled. I was trying to say there isn't much need to limit yourself like that.

Oh. And I don't know if it is so in goats but polled is tecessive to horned in cattle. Spurs are a different gene so it can be just a little complicated.

Lol, and sorry. I'm doing too many things at once, I didn't look at who asked.
 

Ponypoor

Songster
May 23, 2021
380
710
148
Central Ontario, Canada
I'm not talking about dehorning - in goats, some are born naturally polled - which is to say - without horns. Forever. It was a trait that used to be selected for (by man - nature, obviously, does not favor goats missing their primary means of protection), but back in the middle of last century, the USDA published something about polled goats producing sterile offspring, and horns have been making a comback ever since. (except for pets)
No naturally polled cattle are no low producers. If they were, then the cattle industry would never utilize them! It's all about the money in the cow business.
 

U_Stormcrow

Free Ranging
Jun 7, 2020
4,628
13,496
536
North FL Panhandle Region / Wiregrass
Yes. I understood that. You have a lot more to choose from if you don't limit yourself to polled. I was trying to say there isn't much need to limit yourself like that.

Oh. And I don't know if it is so in goats but polled is tecessive to horned in cattle. Spurs are a different gene so it can be just a little complicated.

Lol, and sorry. I'm doing too many things at once, I didn't look at who asked.


All good, been guilty of trying to do a few too many things at the same time, also.

*IF* it all goes bad, I'd not select for something that needed me to protect it - heck, all my goats currently have horns, too - and I'd likely leave it to my neighbors (who already raise cattle) to continue to do so, trade with them for what's needed. Expect the neighbors would get together and collectively split the local grape arbors - held by a commercial winemaker, no one lives on the acres, too remote to be worth their effort if systems start breaking down. But the neighbors and I are w/i walking/riding distance. Suddenly the rights of those distant property holders wouldn't seem so important, I'm sure.
 

SegiDream

Songster
Apr 23, 2020
365
1,062
196
Southeast TN
Haven't read through all of this thread but got through most of it I think. Lots of great info!

I would suggest watching some videos of Joel Salatin for hints on how to work your land (even just a small area of land) in a way that is more beneficial and sustainable for chickens/rabbits/pigs/goats etc. IE how to be more independent = less pain from fluctuations in the system. A lot of his advice is good for both a small homestead or large scale farm.

If things get really tough we will use a couple tractors to move them around. We have a few acres of open field with a huge variety of plants and bugs even in the winter. And then substitute/vary their diet with extras like bean sprouts, oats/barley, scraps etc. The downside is that we will have to move them regularly. We have a couple greenhouses to put up hopefully before winter sets in for growing cold season vegetables/herbs and starting summer plants early. We'll try to reserve feed for the worst winter months.

These may be helfpul:

Also consider raising pill bugs or isopods. They are extremely easy to raise and high in calcium.

If you are considering aquaponics/bog plants etc. Consider lemon bacopa, it's herbacious. Maybe not so good for chickens as it's a member of the mint family.
 

saysfaa

Songster
Jul 1, 2017
896
1,921
241
Upper Midwest, USA
.. Suddenly the rights of those distant property holders wouldn't seem so important, I'm sure.
Too true. It is so now. I went to pick the quinces last week and saw fresh tire tracks in to the trees and the trees stripped of every fruit that could be reached from a tailgate.

I lost at least 15 massive douglas firs ( I measured some of the stumps and from stump to the tops. They would have paid my property taxes for a few decades. It was the year after my dad died; he would have noticed; my mother not so much.

Which is one of the reasons I am not preparing beyond the cheap insurance level. If it ever gets really bad, it won't be just a few of the locals picking the premiums - it will be floods of people over running it.

We have many great neighbors; and a few not so much.
 

SegiDream

Songster
Apr 23, 2020
365
1,062
196
Southeast TN
Too true. It is so now. I went to pick the quinces last week and saw fresh tire tracks in to the trees and the trees stripped of every fruit that could be reached from a tailgate.

I lost at least 15 massive douglas firs ( I measured some of the stumps and from stump to the tops. They would have paid my property taxes for a few decades. It was the year after my dad died; he would have noticed; my mother not so much.

Which is one of the reasons I am not preparing beyond the cheap insurance level. If it ever gets really bad, it won't be just a few of the locals picking the premiums - it will be floods of people over running it.

We have many great neighbors; and a few not so much.

Land security is one thing that is worrisome if the system breaks down. Unfortunately we are surrounded by urban neighborhoods that have spread out from the city and they have ZERO respect for private property. A nearby neighbor is selling 100 pasture acres so we will see yet another annoying nosy/loud neighborhood pop up pretty soon. Trespassers are already a problem and we have had similar instances where wanderers just helped themselves to our fruit trees, nuts and berries.

One group of teenagers decided to drive their truck through my garden this summer. They just smiled and waved and took off down the road when I ran outside. Plus side was they ran over a garden decoy that probably punctured a tire. This behavior has led to gates, no trespass signs and cameras. Still doesn't deter them cause I found a fresh campfire a couple weeks ago. I also use real locks and keys on our coop and will continue to do so on all structures. It won't stop someone determined to break in but hopefully it will stop them long enough to alert us. It will be like the wild west if/when the system breaks down. I considered placing the greenhouses in a secluded area out of sight but that secluded area will also hide it from our sight so I'm probably going to keep them within eyesight/earshot of the house...
 

Regina Larsen

Songster
May 6, 2020
233
561
181
Long Island NY USDA zone 7
Haven't read through all of this thread but got through most of it I think. Lots of great info!

I would suggest watching some videos of Joel Salatin for hints on how to work your land (even just a small area of land) in a way that is more beneficial and sustainable for chickens/rabbits/pigs/goats etc. IE how to be more independent = less pain from fluctuations in the system. A lot of his advice is good for both a small homestead or large scale farm.

If things get really tough we will use a couple tractors to move them around. We have a few acres of open field with a huge variety of plants and bugs even in the winter. And then substitute/vary their diet with extras like bean sprouts, oats/barley, scraps etc. The downside is that we will have to move them regularly. We have a couple greenhouses to put up hopefully before winter sets in for growing cold season vegetables/herbs and starting summer plants early. We'll try to reserve feed for the worst winter months.

These may be helfpul:

Also consider raising pill bugs or isopods. They are extremely easy to raise and high in calcium.

If you are considering aquaponics/bog plants etc. Consider lemon bacopa, it's herbacious. Maybe not so good for chickens as it's a member of the mint family.
Thanks in going to look at those vids later on
 

Regina Larsen

Songster
May 6, 2020
233
561
181
Long Island NY USDA zone 7
Land security is one thing that is worrisome if the system breaks down. Unfortunately we are surrounded by urban neighborhoods that have spread out from the city and they have ZERO respect for private property. A nearby neighbor is selling 100 pasture acres so we will see yet another annoying nosy/loud neighborhood pop up pretty soon. Trespassers are already a problem and we have had similar instances where wanderers just helped themselves to our fruit trees, nuts and berries.

One group of teenagers decided to drive their truck through my garden this summer. They just smiled and waved and took off down the road when I ran outside. Plus side was they ran over a garden decoy that probably punctured a tire. This behavior has led to gates, no trespass signs and cameras. Still doesn't deter them cause I found a fresh campfire a couple weeks ago. I also use real locks and keys on our coop and will continue to do so on all structures. It won't stop someone determined to break in but hopefully it will stop them long enough to alert us. It will be like the wild west if/when the system breaks down. I considered placing the greenhouses in a secluded area out of sight but that secluded area will also hide it from our sight so I'm probably going to keep them within eyesight/earshot of the house...
Security will become a crucial issue. Ppl will have to make a big set of decisions based on their comfort level for securing their resources.
Im in a suburban small farm/horse property area. Excellent neighbors who all keep livestock and homestead to some degree.
Im picturing - and tentatively confident - of an association. The lone wolf grey man model is romantic but not sustainable except in very specific circumstances. Like minds and extra sets of eyes have a better chance.
 
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