Fenbendazole, Panacure, Safe-Guard oral..update internal layer pg 3-4

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by zowieyellowflame, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. zowieyellowflame

    zowieyellowflame Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Hello,
    My vet sold me some of this drug, it is labelled "Panacure suspension/#30 1ml" and it advises to give 0.25 cc's per chicken for 5 days. (the #30 1ml I am pretty sure is just a code for them to be able to remix it. The label is one they printed, not a manufacture label)
    It seems that many of the comments I read indicate you just do it once, but I have found a few say 4 or 5 days to be more effective at certain worms. Any thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2010
  2. zowieyellowflame

    zowieyellowflame Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Really wondering.... I treated a sick hen who I think was overwhelmed by worms. Today she was very weak from the treatment and now she seems a bit better. Do I continue the treatment tomorrow or let her rest for a while?
     
  3. gritsar

    gritsar Cows, Chooks & Impys - OH MY!

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    I can't be sure about fenbendazole, but I use albendazole (in the same class of drugs). I only give 1/2 cc per standard bird, orally, ONE time per year. I do it as a routine worming, not for a severe worm infestation.
    Sorry I can't be of more help. Good luck to you.
     
  4. ND

    ND Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I'm not sure I can be much help but...

    I've looked and looked and can't find anything 'official' about the dosing of fenbendazole in chickens-- probably because it's an off label use.
    When used in horses and other animals, it's considered a highly safe dewormer, the dewormer of choice in heavy infestations, because it's a 'slow kill' and not terribly powerful. NOW, this is in OTHER animals, not chickens. Birds metabolize things differently...

    In chickens, it seems Wazine (Piperazine-only targeting roundworms) is the first line of defense because it's mild and only targets one type of worm.

    In ANY animal/bird, it's not so much the dewormer medication that's the problem... as it is the die off of large amounts of worms. When a large infestation dies all at once, when they die, they overwhelm the animal with a toxin they're giving off before finally being passed out of the animal. In, say...horses... a large infestation can even cause impaction if too many die off at once. I suppose that's entirely possible with any animal or bird...

    Horses are prone to strongyles, and a particular stage in strongyle cycles is the encysted stage...where it actually burrows into the lining of the intestines, encysts, and they 'hatch' at various times. They cause terrible scarring, among other things. Few medications will kill the encysted stage-- the body processes the meds out of the system too fast...and in the encysted stage, the metabolism of the parasite is VERY, VERY slow... so not enough medication gets in it, in one dose, to kill it.

    FOR THIS REASON, Fenbendazole is given at double dosage by body weight for FIVE days in a row, at minimum. This is supposed to get enough of the medication in the system and KEEP it in the bloodstream long enough for the parasite to metabolize it and die.



    Now, I don't find any evidence that chickens have a parasite that encysts exactly like that.

    BUT, I'm also not sure how a chicken metabolizes the medication in the dewormer. They may metabolize it very quickly... quickly enough to not get some of the worms, I suppose, if it's half-life in the body is too short for the worm to metabolize it. I'm not saying that this is what happens....but it could be the reason why the vet prescribed it for 5 days.

    Another reason could be... that if the vet isn't extremely knowledgeable about birds and deworming... he/she could be going by what's done on heavy infestations on other animals, like horses.


    In a horse, like I said, it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to overdose them with fenbendazole... I'm not sure that they've even determined a "fatal" amount at many, many thousand times the actual dose. (But say, ivermetrin is toxic at just 20X's the dose, and Quest---I can't think of the drug name of it... just 4 or 5 times the dose-- it's considered an 'easy over dose' drug) I don't know, since this is used OFF LABEL for chickens, if anything is known about what levels are toxic, if any...

    But as I said, in most cases of problems with dewormers, it's not the drug of choice used... it's the massive die off of worms that overwhelms the host.



    If it were ME... I'd stop at ONE deworming for right now IF you feel that your bird had a heavy infestation. I'd let her 'rest' and recovery a week or so...and then I'd do the 5 day, if I felt it were necessary. I might ask the vet why the 5 day dose vs. just one dose, too... why is that needed for a chicken? I'd like to know myself... I know why it's needed in horses (encysted strongyles), but AFAIK, chickens don't get those...


    In either event... it won't kill tapeworms. The only thing I've found listed on poultry sites that get tapes is albendazole.


    Probably not much help... sorry!
     
  5. gritsar

    gritsar Cows, Chooks & Impys - OH MY!

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    ND, I personally think you were a trememdous help to spell things out that way.

    I like the albendazole. Kills just about every kind of worm you can imagine, including liver flukes and gapeworm. It's also the wormer of choice in HUMANS.
     
  6. dawg53

    dawg53 Humble

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    ND You are absolutely correct regarding fenbendazole being one of the safest wormers on the market...hence the name "Safeguard." For chickens the safeguard equine paste is easiest to use in a small flock. Dosage is a "pea" size amount for each chicken. It would take at least 100 peas size amounts to harm a single chicken, it's that safe. You are also correct that wazine should be used for first time wormings preventing worm overload which could be toxic and kill the chicken. I always recommend that wazine should be used for first time worming and then follow up 10-14 days later with a broad spectrum wormer such as safeguard, ivermectin, valbazen (albendazole) , zimectrin gold (ivermectin and praziquantel)or quest plus (moxidectin and praziquantel.) The last 3 kill tapeworms as you know, as well as other worms. I, like gritsar, prefer valbazen. Dosage for chickens using zimectrin gold and quest plus is a "BB" size amount given to each chicken. I forgot to add that fenbendazole liquid 10% suspension goat wormer can be used for large flocks; dosage is 3cc per gallon of water. I have no clue as to why zowieyellowflame's vet would recommend 4-5 days of treatment, unless it's a weaker formulation. Normal use of fenbendazole is a one time dosing 10 days after using wazine.
     
  7. ND

    ND Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Dawg53... you mentioned Quest plus... do you know anywhere that HAS quest plus? I haven't been able to find it in almost 2 years. Regular quest, yes...but not the plus (for tapeworms). I want it for my horses...but ever since that company was bought by another, supplies seem to have dried up-- none in stock ANYWHERE-- and on 'back order' everywhere I look online.
     
  8. dawg53

    dawg53 Humble

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    I have a box of it in my kitchen closet lol. Unfortunately the feed store that I bought it at (with the zimectrin gold also) went out of business this past May. Have you checked TSC?
     
  9. dawg53

    dawg53 Humble

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    I found it....go to; jeffers livestock...they have it for $9.95. I've done biz with them, they have fast shipping too. They are out of Dothan, Alabama. You can order online or call them. Edited; I went to TSC's website also and typed in "Quest Plus." It showed a product called "Equimax," same thing as Quest Plus (maybe they changed the name and colors of the box), but it's $2.00 more expensive.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2010
  10. ND

    ND Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I got all excited and about peed myself...

    ...luckily, I stayed dry [​IMG]... because when you click on it to order... it says in small print that it's on indefinite back order and no orders will be taken of the product. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     

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