For those interested in Breeding and or Exhibiting ABA/APA birds only

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by Black Cochin Bantams, Dec 13, 2011.

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  1. Black Cochin Bantams

    Black Cochin Bantams Chillin' With My Peeps

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    The purpose of this thread is a place for those interested in Large Fowl and Bantam birds bred toward ABA and APA standards. No project birds or cutesy pictures off your pet as there many other places on BYC for that. If interested in showing but never have please ask. It is not that hard but instant success seldom happens. There needed to be a place for serious breeders and exhibitors to meet and discuss issues If the honest truth will hurt your feelings too much don't post. Flip side of that is this a site all ages of the family go to so please temper responses for all to read. Questions about breeding? Ask. Enjoy!
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2011
  2. pips&peeps

    pips&peeps There is no "I" in Ameraucana

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    There is no such thing as a "standard bird"; they are called large fowl.

    Standard refers to the SOP.
     
  3. animaladdictions

    animaladdictions Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Is this for all breeds or just Cochins? Also, I'm planning on buying the book soon, but for now, could someone tell me where I can find the APA's SOP for Large Fowl Cochins? I can't seem to find it. [​IMG]

    Thanks!
     
  4. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    APA and ABA each have a standard. THe APA's is titled The Standard of Perfection; the ABA's is titled The Bantam Standard Both have new editions out in 2011.
     
  5. animaladdictions

    animaladdictions Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Right. That's what I'm hoping to purchase soon. Although I didn't realize the 2011 version was already available. That's good to know. I want to get a color version of the APA, but I heard it was quite pricey, so I'll have to wait till AFTER Christmas as all my extra cash has gone to the kids' Christmas! [​IMG] I was hoping in the meantime to find a link or something that lists the standards for a lf cochin. More so for type/conformation than for any specific color. Does that make any sense? I'm such a noob when it comes to what makes a cochin "show quality". But, it's extremely important to me that I strive for birds that meet the APA's Standard of Perfection. Sadly, I've learned the hard way that not everyone claiming to have "show quality" birds, actually does and its cost me a small fortune and a lot of disappointment in finding this out. I wish everyone could just be honest about what they have and not simply concerned with making a buck.

    I don't know if its been done, but I think it would be great if some of the breeders that actually have show quality birds could post a thread that lists all the things a newbie should be looking for and what questions they should always ask BEFORE purchasing birds/eggs. Just a thought. [​IMG]
     
  6. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    I have to say that the most helpful thing is to find a breeder and talk to them while looking over birds at a show. Go over what he/she looks for (and also things they do not want); find out which traits they feel are more important and why. Have the standard in hand, and ask them to explain any portion you are unsure of, and to verify f you are correct on things you think you understand. The standard is not always easy to interpret for someone who is not used to it. Do this with several breeders, and even judges, and combine the opinions of all to decide how you want to breed. This is a never ending process--even people who have bred for years sometimes debate within themselves or other breeders on details. Realize that you are not going to learn it all in one short time.
     
  7. Narragansett

    Narragansett Chillin' With My Peeps

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    pips&peeps :

    There is no such thing as a "standard bird"; they are called large fowl.

    Standard refers to the SOP.

    I agree. It irriates me to see people refer to large fowl as "standards". The problem is, this incorrect usage is so ingrained that I don't think that we'll ever get rid of it. Even a lot of judges and parent club officers still use it.

    A little background: years ago, before even the oldest of us were born, there were very few bantams in the Standard. Bantams back then were considered worthless, a joke, and their breeders not to be taken seriously. There was a lot of predjudice against them in the show hall. In those practical times they did not lay large enough eggs to eat, or put on enough meat to bother with, despite what some of the sales pitches tell you in the hatchery catalogs today. As most bantams were not recognized, it became the norm to distinguish large fowl as standards, because they were in it, while most bantams were not.

    It gets complicated when people confuse dog terms as well. A few dog breeds like Schnauzers, Daschunds and Poodles refer to Standard as the standard type, "normal" sized dog, distinguishing them from smaller or large versions by calling these toys, minis, (AKA, our version of bantam) or giants as the case may be.

    Speaking of confusing dog terms with poultry, there is no such thing as "pet quality" chicken. Again, confusing dog and cat breeder terms, in which their breeder or show culls really do deserve to be called pet quality, because obviously dogs and cats are primarily pets today. And in poultry there is no such thing as breeder quality either. That term isn't even used in dogs. There are some breeds in which there are nonshowable breeder dogs, but for the most part, show dogs are bred from other show dogs. The correct term for nonshowable breeder birds in poultry is the term that pigeon breeders still use today, stock birds.

    I don't like this insistence on assigning initials to everything either. It gets very confusing when taken out of context. SQ, BQ, PQ, and all the breed and variety shortcuts that people use are an extention of today's lazy text speak. u no wut i meen?​
     
  8. Narragansett

    Narragansett Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:You can buy the APA Standard of Perfection from the APA. There is a discussion about this currently on the Marans thread. A lot of people hope to find this information for free, but the APA holds copyright to the standards and they cannot be reprinted without permission. Sale of the Standards is a major source of income for the APA, and as exhibitors we have an obligation to uphold the intent of the organization for the long term benefit of all exhibitors, not just the short term self interests of a few individuals. If you are going to exhibit, you need a standard anyway. There is a lot more in it that you need to know, other than just the breed and variety descriptions, like the scale of points, defects and disqualifications, show class organization, etc.
     
  9. wolftracks

    wolftracks Spam Hunter

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    OK I have to say that the show dog information isn't correct either. LOL

    Having shown and bred dogs for over 40 years now and being 'bred" hehe into a show and breeding family I always cringe when someone says, you only breed show dogs to get show dogs. Not always the case and not always the case they show be totally show quality. There are even grand champions who were not bred from show quality dogs, but there's a lot that goes into doing that. Still, I have know many many people who never got a show pup, from any combination of breeding to only show dogs. Just sayin!

    The way things change over the years, once you seem to figure out the lingo, the lingo changes with everything. I find it kind of irratating when newbies show up here and are coached by other newbies, who have learned from someone who hasn't got a clue when they give information. I see so many of them taking dangerous or unsafe advice when asking questions about their birds. Not saying that someone coming on these boards for the first time don't know what they are talking about, but most have asked the same questions, just a few days to a month before, taken the wrong info as correct and then passed it off.

    Simple example:

    What color is my Americana, and sometimes it's spelled correctly, but usually not.

    The feed store to some was correct, so they pass along their birds as such when selling. Then you get the hardcore breeders, who are not always kind in their answers, so they take the advice of those who tell them that they ARE AMs because the breeder or feed store said so. As everyone knows, this is probably the main topic of breeds and what they are and aren't on this whole board and probably the world. LOL

    I like the idea of this thread. I hope those who are just starting out and are willing to learn will visit and it will take off well. I know there are other threads too, but I have to admit, I've sent 3 days a couple of times, going through each and every post to catch up in a thread and by the time I finish I know less than I did when I first opened it. Hopefully this will be an easy to follow one, at least for now.
     
  10. hdowden

    hdowden Overrun With Chickens

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    i just need it for d'uccles not every breed out there [​IMG]
     
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