Fowl pox or LT?

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by Tibsimbru, Dec 7, 2009.

  1. Tibsimbru

    Tibsimbru New Egg

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    Dec 7, 2009
    Hello

    We are new chicken owners, and have run into some trouble.
    We got two little hens about a month ago - "bantams de pekin" in French, and then two more and a rooster (different species - not sure of name in English - see photo) a week ago. We haven't mixed the two batches. They are all less than a year old.
    [​IMG]
    Yesterday, one of the newer hens (in the photo) died.
    We saw on friday night that she had been coughing blood - I think we must have missed the early signs of a viral respiratory infection.... so we had a secondary bacterial one on top. We got her to the vet on saturday, who diagnosed fowl pox. But can you cough up blood with fowl pox? Anyway, we isolated her, and moved the rooster and other hen out into a different pen so as to clean and disinfect their first coop.
    The sick hen was in huge distress, but we did not clean anything out of her throat (mistake?). She did start eating a bit and drinking yesterday, however, and we were giving her antibiotics (plus water and a bit of paste with a syringe on sat night), but she was so tired... and she died last night.
    Questions:
    - How can we be sure this is fowl pox and not LT? The vet said he saw "false membrane" in her throat (I'm translating from the French, sorry!!) but her neck was stretched right out and she was gasping, plus the bloody coughing...
    - We have put the cock and other hen on antibiotics this morning. It seems pretty sure they'll be infected, right? We are trying to track down vaccines for them asap. What else can we do by way of prevention? What are the early signs? Their eyes are clear so far.
    - How can we stop transmission to the first two little hens, if the disease can be carried by clothers? Vaccination, I guess?? Impossible to have different caretakers - they are literally backyard chickens, so it's just us looking after them.
    - How long should we leave the original coop empty, post-disinfecting? I gather the virus can hang around for ages...

    Alot of questions, but it's all very new, and the hen's death is such a huge blow. [​IMG] It is HORRIBLE seeing such distress, so we are very very keen to avoid more of it.

    Any help would be appreciated

    Thank you
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2009
  2. robin416

    robin416 Chillin' With My Peeps

    Feb 6, 2007
    How confident are you in the vet's abilities?

    Its obvious you've done some home work regarding poultry diseases and that you know coughing blood usually points to ILT. If its possible I would ask him to test specifically for ILT. Try to get an absolute answer to what may be happening.

    If it is ILT I'm not sure that you would be able to eradicate it with the tools you have. When the government does a disinfection they remove all bedding, feathers and feed stuffs completely from the property to be destroyed. They remove all droppings. The building is disinfected as is the ground around the building.
     
  3. Tibsimbru

    Tibsimbru New Egg

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    Dec 7, 2009
    Thank you for your answer. Appreciate it.

    We found the vet "en urgence", and not sure he's a chicken specialist. Apparently this was not the first hen he's examined, but we didn't have the impression he's a hen expert either. We're tracking down a chuck specialist today, along with the vaccines.

    My doubt comes from the fact that I have not seen a single mention of coughed up blood and fowl pox... and the way her neck was arched out...

    We're aiming to set up two circuits - "clean" and "dirty" to keep all the infected birds and material away from the non-infected, tho it's quite an operation, as you can imagine. Might limit the damage, but sounds like it could be bad.

    Are we supposed to scrape out the throat if it's fowl pox? Seems so.

    I presume you meant test the live chucks for ILT? Once they start manifesting symptoms? Too late to test on the dead one?

    Last question: should the dead one be burnt?

    Thank you again
     
  4. robin416

    robin416 Chillin' With My Peeps

    Feb 6, 2007
    Its going to depend on how long the other has been dead and whether it was kept cool. As far as I know living birds can be tested, I don't know what country you're actually in so I don't have a clue what procedures your country would have for testing or necropsy.

    If it is ILT it is very bad. This is one of those diseases that will always be there, no way to be rid of it without destroying the flock and sterilizing the premises.

    In the US even if you have birds that were never near the infected flock all would still need to be culled to stop the disease vector.

    Please keep us informed of what you find.
     
  5. Feathered Wings

    Feathered Wings Chillin' With My Peeps

    Oct 9, 2008
    Georgia
    Here is a thread i was involved in concerning Fowl Pox it may help you https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=268902&p=1

    Infection
    sets in during Wet Fowl Pox due to the Masses in the chickens throat becoming infected before they are detected and removed.

    My Chickens that died i lost because the masses were so large and grew so fast they suffocated.
    I also lost some that were young they just could take the sudden attack on their small body's from the Wet Pox.

    After my first chicken came down with it i checked any chickens throat that appeared to be having problems.
    If caught soon enough it can be controlled.


    Also you can't vaccinate already infected chickens for fowl pox the vaccine is a Live Virus and will kill the ones already affected if given to them.
     
  6. Tibsimbru

    Tibsimbru New Egg

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    Dec 7, 2009
    OK excellent: thank you all. All very useful info, especially the photos of wet pox. Explains the "false membrane" thing the vet was talking about (I'm in France, BTW).

    You can get autoposies done here - to be investigated. But the dead ([​IMG]) hen may not have been kept cool enough.

    Will investigate live birds' throats today.

    OK for vaccines. I was thinking of just vaccinating the two little "batams de Pekin" that have not been in contact with the others, to stop them getting it via contact with us, our clothes or whatever - there's a chance (...) they haven't been exposed yet.

    We only have 4 birds now. I'm dreading what's to come, but it would be worse if we had 40....

    Tibsimbru
     
  7. Tibsimbru

    Tibsimbru New Egg

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    Dec 7, 2009
    Another question, just in case anyone's still reading...

    If it is ILT, does it set in quick?
    The dead hen was sick last thurs/fri, and the other two are still showing no signs. I know that fowl pox is slow-moving, but ILT?

    Merci
    Tibsimbru
     
  8. pips&peeps

    pips&peeps There is no "I" in Ameraucana

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    Jan 18, 2008
    Newman Lake, WA
    Yes, ILT spreads like wildfire.

    I would recommend getting the vaccine right away and vaccinating all other chickens on your farm. You should then vaccinate any additional birds that come into your flock.


    If it is ILT it is very bad. This is one of those diseases that will always be there, no way to be rid of it without destroying the flock and sterilizing the premises.

    In the US even if you have birds that were never near the infected flock all would still need to be culled to stop the disease vector.

    This is untrue, you need to vaccinate all birds on the premises then cull any birds with signs of disease.​
     
  9. robin416

    robin416 Chillin' With My Peeps

    Feb 6, 2007
    Jean, I disagree with you on the vaccinating. Even the killed vaccine has a chance of creating carriers of something like 10%. I'd have to look the actual number up again but its something in that area. I'm not willing to risk creating a carrier that might infect someone else's flock or show birds.

    And as to vaccinating, it depends on the state you inhabit. In mine they would cull the entire flock, disinfect the property and remain without birds for a period of time. No vaccinating once the disease is confirmed.
     
  10. Tibsimbru

    Tibsimbru New Egg

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    Dec 7, 2009
    Does anyone have a photo of what a chicken with ILT's throat looks like?

    Apparently our dead chuck's throat did not look like the photo given in the post above - she had a bit of white liquid in her throat, but otherwise four or five small white spots on her palet - pinhead sized, slightly raised.

    Thanks

    TIbsimbru
     

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