Frizzle genes of this bird?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by perryalana21404, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. perryalana21404

    perryalana21404 Out Of The Brooder

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    Anybody want to take a crack at what kinds of genes are involved (and the associated gene symbol) for this bird? I have some of the offspring in this picture and would like to play with some Punnett squares.

    The rooster is a pure white silky which I've read is recessive white.
    If true, why are so many of the chicks white?

    In the frizzle hen, I see colombian influence on the head and tail, but what am I seeing in the body feathers?? The feathers have a very light, maybe white outer edge. Her bloomers seem to be mostly white or light as well. Is this (S)ilver? Is that why so many of the chicks are white?

    All we know is that the hen is a frizzle cochin out of Princeton, MN. And she is not my bird so I only know as much as you can see.

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  2. Definitely drizzle gened! I have a blue frizzle EE roo!
     
  3. tadkerson

    tadkerson Chillin' With My Peeps

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    For the chicks to be recessive white the mother would have to be carrying a recessive white allele. It is possible the father also carries dominant white; then you would get dominant white chicks. The chicks should have some black spots in the down if they are dominant white.

    If she is silver then the males are silver also- the females could be gold if the father is gold. White silky- you do not know the genes hidden under the white.

    Tim
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  4. Georgia Boy 1970

    Georgia Boy 1970 Chillin' With My Peeps

    Not qualified to answer your question.But did want to comment on that hen.Good looking hen with an awesome and unique color.
     
  5. perryalana21404

    perryalana21404 Out Of The Brooder

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    Here are some more screen captures of the hen and chicks for a better view. Hen looks like she might have white lacing on her back feathers.

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    Facts:
    - about 50% of the chicks are white.
    - None are black speckled (like the leaky dominant white.)
    - Most of the whites have a gold blush on their breasts and wings. This is a faint, rolled in the dirt, kind of blush. It is so light I had to double check to make sure it wasn't dirt. It is not the black feather here and there as seen in leaky dominant white. You can kind of see this blush in the head down in the pics above.)
    - The white birds are about 50% male 50% female
    - The males (at least that I got from the hatch) are all non-black skinned, the females are all black skinned (in both white and non-white birds.)

    Concerning the white silky rooster:

    Q: Does the leakiness of dominant white show randomly or typically more with a homozygous or heterozygous state? (Does dom white have a double dosing effect so that hetero's are leaky and homo's strengthen up to a solid white or vice versa?) If I/I tends to be leaky while I/i is more solid white, then the white silky rooster could be carrying one dominant white and it would provide the 1:1 ratio we see in whites.

    Q: Would the leaky dominant white be able to let the blush gold come through? If not, then we eliminate dominant white genes.

    Q: Does (S)ilver produce an 'all white' bird or just change the color in a pattern like Gold vs Silver lacing. Considering Delaware chickens, silver birds can be mostly white... perhaps this is how the dirty blush gold is coming through?

    Q: Does epistatic recessive white completely block other colors and patterns? If so, then there could be NO dirty gold coming through. (or is there something else at play here?) Even if recessive white could allow the blush gold, it would require that the hen has a hidden recessive white allele (like Tim stated) to get our 1:1 ratio. If the blush gold would be blocked then we can eliminate recessive white as the primary white in the chicks.


    Concerning the hen:
    I don't have my head wrapped around the birchens or wheatens or E modifiers or the I modifiers and pattern genes (and lots of other things!)
    Looking at the hen, any guesses as to what genes she is displaying? Is there a 'standard' gene set for large cochins as a starting point?
     
  6. I bought a book yesterday with EVERY breed of poultry in it. I found a pic of her... Searched and searches for a name! Can't find her in here, but there's a pic of her! They look identical! I'll keep searching!
     
  7. perryalana21404

    perryalana21404 Out Of The Brooder

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    Thank you PC.

    Update: We have a grandbaby chick that hatched Christmas Day from this hen, actually a chick from one of the hens pictured as chicks above... and it is a black skinned white silkie with extra toes! The only evidence of cross breeding is that the rusty blush is again coming through in the white. Due to the white chicks above having the same blush in their adult feathers, I have to assume that the blush I am seeing in the chick down will probably carry thru into adult plumage.

    Okay Gene Experts, can anybody tell me what gene(s) are responsible for this (apparently) dominant hint of red coming through in otherwise pure white feathers?

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  8. perryalana21404

    perryalana21404 Out Of The Brooder

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    Tim, is this the autosomal red you were talking about before? Does it have a gene symbol and what are its characteristics?
     
  9. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    Cochins are usually e^b based, but some varieties may have different e-alleles. We'd need better photos that allow us to see the individual feathers in better detail to give you an accurate of likely genes. She probably has Pg, but I cannot tell if she is laced or penciled or even mottled (I doubt, but cannot tell for certain).
     
  10. perryalana21404

    perryalana21404 Out Of The Brooder

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    Thank you Sonoran! That info was gold.

    The large group of chicks have adult plumage that is white with a light casting of a rusty blush. The 3rd generation silky chick also has the blushed downy feathers so I'm betting on it showing up in adult plumage too.

    So where is the rust color coming from? Based upon what you have answered above, none of the whites should be displaying the rust. I'm really confused about this.

    I'll try to get some decent pics of the chicks as adults. Maybe that will help.
    Thank you again!
    Perry
     

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