Frizzles...

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by ashleymarie82, Aug 19, 2016.

  1. ashleymarie82

    ashleymarie82 Just Hatched

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    I have a few questions about frizzles.

    Basically how do you get them and be purebred? Where did they come from?

    I have a frizzle orphington in what I call my misfit coop (mixed breeds). So I know those are all going to be "mutts". But how did my blue orphington get frizzled anyway?

    This had to start somewhere!
     
  2. Fred's Hens

    Fred's Hens Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

    They are not an accepted variety by the APA. (correction. any breed can be shown with frizzled feathers)

    New varieties are created, just as most all breeds are created. A bit of this, touch of that. You "mix" in genetics from other birds and breeds. Breed lots of them for years and years, cull very ruthlessly, pushing and breeding the "new variety" to the breed standard. It takes years of committed work and must be done by a cooperative group of skillful breeders and exhibitors, not just by a single person.

    The rules for how to get a variety accepted are quite clear and the bar is set intentionally very high. The rules are defined in the Constitution on the APA home page.

    The frizzle feather gene is thought to have originated in Asia and has been seen on asiatic fowl since the 1800's.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2016
  3. ashleymarie82

    ashleymarie82 Just Hatched

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    Oh I don't want to get anything recognized lol. I was just wondering where that gene comes from. I see people selling "purebred frizzle Cochins" for example and wondered how it was purebred if it had frizzle in it. I guess that's the best way to word my question...
     
  4. Fred's Hens

    Fred's Hens Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

    These are largely PT Barnum situations. Pop culture selling of non standard stuff as if they were something very special.

    Until people actually study the Standard of Perfection and attend high quality APA or ABA sanctioned exhibitions and see quality birds judged to the breed Standard, there will always be those looking to make profits and those suckered in thinking they have something special.

    "Pure bred" in poultry has an altogether different meaning than it does in mammals like dogs and horses however.

    In a nutshell, chickens are judged against an objective written breed standard. Almost every breed is a composite and man-made. Only when the birds are judged to be good examples of the breed standard and reproduce true examples can they be said to be pure bred.

    What folks need to grasp is this No matter the color. No matter the addition of "frizzle" feathering, the bird remains the bird. Look past all that and ask, "Is this a proper shaped (what we call type) Orpington? In the vast majority of cases, sellers are selling and buyers are buying birds with blind eyes toward type.
     
  5. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    frizzle is a recognized variation for all breeds, although it is only common in a few.
     
  6. Fred's Hens

    Fred's Hens Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

    I apparently missed that, somehow. I've some reading to do, thanks so much @Sonoran Silkies .

    page 307 of the 2010 Standard does indeed say the frizzle can compete in all bantam breeds, as the bird must otherwise conform to the standard for the breed.

    Page 38 repeats this basically for LF.

    So, I'm lost in the tall grass here, folks. I have no idea how a frizzled Rhode Island Red, with a strict feather requirement or some of the hard feathered Asiatics can meet the feather of the breed and frizzle it at the same time. Color me brain dead at this point. LOL
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2016
  7. Fred's Hens

    Fred's Hens Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

    Well I just chatted with John Monaco, president of the APA, and yup. You can frizzle the feathers on any accepted breed and show it. Of course, the bird is otherwise judged completely to the standard for the breed, so frizzle alone won't enhance or hide whether the bird is standard bred.


    I must say, I know of very few breeds where introducing the frizzle genetics would produce an attractive bird, perhaps the Silkies, Polish, Cochin etc but with 90% of the breeds it would be positively dreadful, in my view.

    Thanks to @Sonoran Silkies for pushing me to take a closer look at this matter. Not so sure I needed to look behind that curtain though. LOL
     
  8. ashleymarie82

    ashleymarie82 Just Hatched

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    I have no desire to show any birds. My flock are my pets and just that. I just basically want to know HOW you get a frizzle to begin with. Not regulations on showing them. I mean, do you electrocute the eggs or what? I JUST KIDDING! [​IMG]

    Like I said, I have a frizzle roo but he is in a mix of girls. So those are not purebred chicks and j never intended for them to be. Just wanted cute birds! But somewhere, somehow, someone knows how to make a bird frizzled in that mix of genetics and stay true to the breed.
     
  9. Fred's Hens

    Fred's Hens Chicken Obsessed Premium Member

    You actually got some very good answers to your questions. I will try to cut to the chase.

    In short? Find a bird with the gene you want (in this case frizzled feather) and breed to it. It's called an outcross. Since almost all breeds are concoctions, you simply mix in what you're going for, and then breed and cull over the next X number of generations to bring the frizzled bird back into alignment you're aiming for. Same thing is done for combs, color, size, and improvements on other traits as well.

    The concept of "purebred" is largely misunderstood. It takes time to understand that it refers to a "pure" example of the breed, according to it's Standard and was bred to to this good example. Standard bred or purebred.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2016

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