Gene gurus a question.

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by walkswithdog, Aug 4, 2008.

  1. walkswithdog

    walkswithdog Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I've been setting up to keep rocks and black/blue/splash giants eventually.

    Of the rocks, barred, white, colombian or partridge, will any one of those colors always "show" me if the rock hen or rock roo has produced a jersey/rock cross? Besides growing out all progeny and looking at size/shape... I was hoping one variety would give me a relatively quick color cue. I was wondering if partridge rocks would do it since that's pretty distinctive from the Giants colors.

    LOL color me clueless.

    Thanks
     
  2. tadkerson

    tadkerson Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:The blue gene and the barring gene are the best markers.

    The only way you could get a barred blue bird would be if a barred rock, or possible a white rock, would be crossed with a blue or splash jersey giant.

    You are asking a complicated question with many possibilities. You can not use skin color because they are both yellow skinned.

    Tim
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2008
  3. walkswithdog

    walkswithdog Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Heck Tim. Why give you an easy one? Figured I'd make my first color question a REAL zinger.

    So a black giant and a partridge hen might still yield a black cross bred bird?
     
  4. tadkerson

    tadkerson Chillin' With My Peeps

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    You would get a black bird but the females will show some red on the anterior end. It could be a small amount on the head or enough to cover the head,hackles and breast. The males will show some red in the pyle zone. It could be a lot or just a little. Rarely do they show red on the breast but sometimes they do.

    Tim
     
  5. walkswithdog

    walkswithdog Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I hope you don't mind the newbie questions. I happen to be taken by both Rocks and Giants and won't have the opportunity/space to house totally separately for awhile.

    With barreds then a black or blue giant roo, and a barred hen, then I'd get some barring in progeny?

    I'm trying to decide whether my dual purpose birds should be partridge or barreds for simplest discrimination of cross breds in case I do end up running both breeds together.

    Nothing like complicating things right from the beginning. I was fixed on barreds until I saw some partridge rocks and wow are they pretty.

    As long as I can pick out crossbred chicks and band and cull them all is well. The dogs certainly don't care if dinner was crossbred.
     
  6. tadkerson

    tadkerson Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Hybrids are some of the best chickens when it comes to laying eggs. I would not worry about the hybrids. If you are not going to show, hybrids are just as good as purebreds. They are all chickens.

    If you have a barred male with a non barred female then all of the progeny will be barred.

    A barred female with non barred male produces barred males and non barred females.

    Tim
     
  7. walkswithdog

    walkswithdog Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Thanks Tim. Yes, the only real reason to be careful which are purebred is for showing and I would eventually like to do some. I hadn't thought about hybrids being more productive but it makes sense. I just want to "know" my mixes from my purebreds when I do get into showing. Of course by then I will probably also have built a bigger coop and separate areas.

    I really appreciate the help. I find this all really interesting.
     
  8. tadkerson

    tadkerson Chillin' With My Peeps

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    There is more than just color to a bird. There is also body type, comb size and shape, and other things to consider. I would suggest getting a Standard of Perfection and contacting a group that is specific to the breed. Jersey giants are big birds. If you mate a standard size giant with another bird the offspring will be smaller and will not meet the standard.

    Tim
     
  9. walkswithdog

    walkswithdog Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I understand that hybrids aren't going to have type or fit the standard, that's why they'd be for meat/egg production alone. And why I hoped to be able to sort them out early by color differences.

    I won't mind the hybrids for "home" use. I just wanted to be able to tell the purebred chicks from hybrid fairly easily.

    If I can tell them apart early by color I won't have to grow them out to tell by shape, etc.

    I don't expect hybrids to meet either standard but they'll make a decent dual purpose bird for our home use.

    I really want that book, but right now electric net and building supplies are on the top of the list.

    I only expect to show the purebred birds and not keep many of the hybrids if and when they happen. I can still grow out the hybrids to meat weight, or keep the one or two hens that are hybrid that really produce eggs or brood well.

    I asked about early color identification for simplicity's sake.

    Wouldn't make much sense to have white rocks and white giants and then totally be unable to tell hybrids from purebreds until they're grown and even then it would be a gamble.

    So I was looking at colored rocks with distinct patterns to make it easy.

    Eventually I'd like two coops and two sets of runs and roo housing but that's later.

    I really appreciate the help.
     
  10. Krys109uk

    Krys109uk Chillin' With My Peeps

    Hello Walkswithdog,

    Sex linked crosses will only really show when the dominant sex lnked gene is carried by the female but not the male. This is because in chickens it is the male which is homogametic (meaning that it's sex chromosomes are both the same rather like female mammals have two X chromosomes) & it is the female which is heterogametic (which means, differing sex chromosomes). The sex chromosomes in chickens are ZZ for males & wZ for females. therefore the sex of the offspring is determined by the sex chromosome inherited from the mother. The sex linked genes are on the Z chromosome. If the dominant sex linked trait is only carried by the mother her female offpring will inherit a w chromosome from her so they can't inherit the dominant gene (& a Z chromosome with the recessive trait from the father). But the male offspring will inherit a Z chromosome from the mother carrying the gene for the dominant trait (& the Z chromosome from the father with the recessive trait0. And that's about how it works.
    So that means.....
    Basically, a blue or black or splash Jersey Giant male on a barred rock female will give offspring which have obvious differences in the down colour at hatch, in that the males of such a mating will have a white headspot on either blue or black down, (depending upon the colour of the sire). Unfortunately the reciprocal cross will just give offspring which all carry the dominant sex linked gene

    I can't see that the partridge cross blue/black/splash would help colourwise, because there probably aren't going to be any noticeable sex linked genes at play. Theoretically the offspring ought to be either blue or black with no sexual dimorphism in down colour at hatch.

    HTH
    Best wishes
    Krys
     

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