genetic

[Dany12]

Are you sure of that ????

No matings of India Blue and White will EVER produce Pied.
http://www.hopkinslivestock.com/genetics.htm

India Blue X India White ( split Pied ) will produce india Blue Pied !

IB Pied X White = 50% IB Pied; 50% White .... some of those White are White split Pied !

I'm wrong ?
To be White you need 2 genes White ... but is there birds with 2 genes White and 1 gene Pied ?
The question is ....does the White split Pied exist ?

A friend of mine get spalding Pied with this cross:
Pure green peahen X IB White cristatus coming from IB Pied.

 

[DylansMom]

This hen is my only pied hen, for now.

She came from the same place I got this IB Pied White Eye cock. This pairing is the probable parents of the only pied I hatched this year. Am I wrong to call her a Pied? I have read here that Pieds should have at least 40% white on them and I don't think she falls into that range. As you can see she has silver feathers on her back, is that a Pied, Silver, or White Eye thing? Or what combination could it be?









This is the probable offspring from the above pair. If he is White Eye wouldn't he have some silver feathers?

This is what gets so confusing about Silver Pieds. My understanding is that the popular belief at this point is that Silver is a result of the Pied, White and WE genes intermingling and perhaps causing an additional mutation or blending of their affects that results in the Silvering of feathers. That doesn't mean it will happen everytime a bird is hatched that carries White, Pied and WE, if it is a mutation it is a "Fluke" and you can breed Whites to Pied WE birds for a lifetime and not get a Silver, or you could get one the first try. The surest way though is to purchase one that already carries Silver. Just like Peach, people bred Cameos to Purples and got Cameos, Purples and IB splits for years before a Peach ever popped up. Now we can get Peach by purchasing a Peach and breeding it. We could also purchase Cameo and Purple but that doesn't guarantee we will get any Peach from them

Looking at your hen in the picture I am not sure if I am seeing silvering or just a sprinkling of white feathers. Either way I would call her a Pied who may be split(carrying 1 gene) to WE. In order for a bird to be a "White Eyed" bird it must carry 2 copies of that gene resulting in all or almost all white eyes in the train. A bird carrying 1 copy of WE will have more like a sprinkling of white feathers in the train. I'll attach a picture of my Spalding hen who appears split to Pied and split to WE. This hen has no silvering, just 1 copy of Pied and1 copy of White Eye and this is how it shows up visually.

 

[DylansMom]

My hen is very camera shy but if you look at the third picture between the neck and the two white feathers on her back the feathers are very silver, my poor use of the camera does not show it as well as in person.

The cock I called IB/Pied/ WE is only carrying one copy of WE as he only has about one third to half his train in white eyes. Should I not call him WE unless ALL the train feathers are white eyed?

I have two sisters coming two this next year, Betty and Vanna (White Eye) who may be carrying two copies of WE. I will get better pics of them but they are very much more noticeable with their silver appearance and a spattering of white feathers, mostly fringed or tipped with white. I also have their brother, I will try to post him as well.

I very much appreciate the lessons and hope that others lurking here are learning too.

Trust me Bill it is not your poor use of a camera. When it comes to Peas it seems like things that are plain as day to the naked eye, often don't show up in a picture nearly as well. And sometimes it's the opposite. I posted a pic awhile back of my BS chick who I think is Bronze BS, in this picture he very clearly has white wing feathers and a white patch on one side, these are almost impossible to see with the naked eye. I am noticing this more and more, probably because I am taking so many more pics to post on here!


As for you IB/Pied/WE If it were me I would call him an IB Pied split WE. I believe a Pied with all white eyes would be called IB/Pied/WE, a Pied like your's with some would be an IB/Pied split WE, and a Pied with no white eyes would simply be an IB/Pied. Nanu's dad is a Pied split to WE, he hardly has a dozen white eyes but we know he carries 1 copy or he couldn't father Silver Pied offspring, as they must inherit 2 copies of WE..... 1 from each parent. Please keep in mind I am by no means an expert on these genetics esp. Silver Pied I'm still learning as well.

 

[AugeredIn]

That's my questioin too !

All peafowl with P/W/We/We genes are Silver pied ? .... with "silver dusting" , or only some of them ?
Can we build a Silver Pied in some generations using peafowl with all the genes we need ... step by step - is there a recipe or is it something it happened one day and nobody know exactly how it happened ?

Only some. There is a mystery ingredient. Where that mystery ingredient resides is still a question but I believe it is linked to the WE genes. Spent some time playing and here is one example:

Dad:






Obviously Cameo Pied White Eye

Mom:


Obviously Cameo Pied White Eye

Out of that pairing you would expect Cameo Pied White 50% of the time all other things being equal right.

Chick #1:


Yep, Got a bunch of Cameo Pied White Eyes! As well as some whites and dark pieds. But wait, we also got something else!

Guess What!


Cameo Silver Pieds!

 

[AugeredIn]

Such beautiful birds AugeredIn! I have been in contact with Brad about buying some Cameo Pied WE but after seeing your birds I am definitely sold now. DW and I are going to go up later in the week to pick them up. I plan to pair them up with my IB Pied WE split Cameo cock. What should I expect to get from that?

Well you will get IB Pied WE hens, Cameo Pied WE hens, White IB WE hens, White Cameo WE hens, IB dark pied WE hens, Cameo dark pied WE hens, IB pied WE males split Cameo, Cameo pied WE males, White IB WE males split Cameo, White Cameo WE males, IB dark pied WE males split Cameo and Cameo dark pied WE males. Note that I fully describe the genetics of the white birds.

If the male and female have the "silver pied" version of the WE gene (if it exists like I suggest), you could get silver pieds and silver pied splits.

 

[DylansMom]

Are you sure of that ????

No matings of India Blue and White will EVER produce Pied.
http://www.hopkinslivestock.com/genetics.htm

India Blue X India White ( split Pied ) will produce india Blue Pied !

IB Pied X White = 50% IB Pied; 50% White .... some of those White are White split Pied !

I'm wrong ?
To be White you need 2 genes White ... but is there birds with 2 genes White and 1 gene Pied ?
The question is ....does the White split Pied exist ?

A friend of mine get spalding Pied with this cross:
Pure green peahen X IB White cristatus coming from IB Pied.

My understanding is that, Yes....the white can be pied underneath. The white genes will just hide the pied, because white is not really a color or a pattern, it can hide both under white. So you can have a purple BS bird that is all white. Maybe I am wrong, but that is how it was explained to me.

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

I can't understand how it could be possible for white to be split pied, if a white bird came out from any pied breeding that means he took one white gene from each parent, so i don't see how its possible.

 

[DylansMom]

I can't understand how it could be possible for white to be split pied, if a white bird came out from any pied breeding that means he took one white gene from each parent, so i don't see how its possible.

If white is a "Pattern" it would not be possible. However, from what I have read it doesn't really behave like a pattern, so it may be a trait apart from color or pattern and if it is, then it could mask the pied pattern. BS is also a pattern correct? And BS can be masked by white correct? This would lead me to believe that the pattern genes and the white genes occupy different places on the DNA strand. If this is the case then I would assume white could also hide the pied pattern. If this is correct the offspring from 2 pieds could take 1 white gene from each parent and also take pied genes from them, but the 2 white genes would hide everything else. The mating that @Dany12 referenced where a pure green hen X IB white out of pieds produces pieds can only be explained this way, and I have heard many times that whites out of pieds can produce pied offspring, which makes me think the pied is there, just hidden. Anyone else have opinions on this???

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

These pied genetics have caused me headaches

 

[Dany12]

In the example I give the father (cristatus White split Pied) would have gave one gene white and one gene Pied to the young Spalding Pied.
Because to make a Pied bird both genes must be present !