Genetics Gurus - Another ? about Dominant and Recessive White

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by pips&peeps, Apr 20, 2009.

  1. pips&peeps

    pips&peeps There is no "I" in Ameraucana

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    Newman Lake, WA
    I obviously have a big problem on my hands. I have a breeding pen of white birds and am getting non white chicks....

    I am guessing the breeder I purchased these birds from has bred dominant white and recessive white together or has used another color on recessive birds to improve the lines. Therefore, the cock and the hens are carrying a split type version of recessive which I will call Ii. When bred together you get mixed offspring of colored and white chicks.

    If I get a dominant white cock to put over these hens will my problems stop? I have worked it out on the kip calculator and it says it will, but I want a human opinion.

    Thanks,


    And, if anyone purchased white variety hatching eggs from me an e-mail will be going out tonight about this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
  2. speckledhen

    speckledhen Intentional Solitude Premium Member

    Well, I am no genetics guru so can't help with your question, but don't you just hate when you get these wild surprises? Just had one myself when a black barred chick popped out from a Blue Orp over RIR/Buff Orp cross hen. Not a big deal to me since it was a crossbreed chick, but it means my roo is carrying the barring gene. Genes are sneaky little things, aren't they?
     
  3. Krys109uk

    Krys109uk Chillin' With My Peeps

    What breed are the birds? What colour are the whites of the breed supposed to be? If you are getting coloured offspring it some of the birds must be heterozygous for dominant white & not be pure for recessive white. Usually heterozygous dominant white birds have small flecks of black leakage throughout the plumage, so you might be able to pick out the het dom white birds by eye.
    A pure dom white male ought to give all white offspring but where some are het they would be likely to show leakage.
    Another option might be to test mate for recessive white & go for pure recessive white?.
     
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  4. Kev

    Kev Overrun With Chickens

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    Also, are the colored chicks feathering out colored or it's just the down color? Recessive white chicks can hatch out chicks with colored down, either gold/buff or shades of gray ranging from soft to so deep they're almost black. All feather out solid white though.

    It is important to mention the breed you're working with- for example you do not want dominant white in amers as this white also has an effect on skin pigmenation.. causing legs and beaks to lighten up to white or yellow depending on skin color. (how's the leg color on the adults)

    Normally het. dominant whites do leak however if the birds also have barring, blue, mottle etc even the hets can be solid white or turn solid white as adults.
     
  5. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    Therefore, the cock and the hens are carrying a split type version of recessive which I will call Ii

    The nomenclature for dominant white is I; recessive white is c. If I understand correctly, you believe you have birds who are Ii Cc?

    Kev & Krys have good points.​
     
  6. pips&peeps

    pips&peeps There is no "I" in Ameraucana

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    Quote:The nomenclature for dominant white is I; recessive white is c. If I understand correctly, you believe you have birds who are Ii Cc?

    Kev & Krys have good points.

    I think they are Ii CC. Please go slow as I am very new to the genetic terms and I am already confusing myself. If you use the kip calculator and breed a I roo over a black hen you supposedly get white chicks, but if you breed those chicks together somewhere down the line, you can end up with black chicks - ii.

    Yes, these are ameraucanas. The leg color on them is much lighter than the previous group of birds I had. Some of the hens do have flecks of black or a black feather here or there.

    Here is a picture of the most recent hatch of chicks. Is this leakage or a "recessive" black gene coming back to haunt me?

    [​IMG]

    This is not just off colored down, which is what I typically see in my whites.

    My main question here is:

    If I have a non-related white cock that is definately dominant white, will this get rid of the problem for the next generation of chicks as long as they are not bred together?


    ETA: I have another picture of some older chicks 2-3 weeks of age and the feathers are coming in a grey color and one a buff/red color on the wings.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
  7. Krys109uk

    Krys109uk Chillin' With My Peeps

    Are those headspots on the grey chicks? Could be they've got barring from underneath? Also if they have silver, which often goes with barring, I think recessive white birds will often have smokey coloured down but should feather up white & because of the silver will probably feather up a whiter white ? [​IMG]
     
  8. pips&peeps

    pips&peeps There is no "I" in Ameraucana

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    I was thinking they looked like headspots you see on barred rocks.

    If they carry the "smoky" gene, how long will it take until the feathers are bright white? One person sent me pictures of chicks that are about 2-3 weeks old and the feathers are a greyish color.
     
  9. Krys109uk

    Krys109uk Chillin' With My Peeps

    Oh I didn't mean to imply they carried the smokey gene.
    I meant that recessive white chicks which have silver, which is often present in barring, often have a smokey colour of down....this is due to the silver gene.
    If they are not feathering up white then maybe it is something else.

    I did have experience of some white Orps which hatched out looking very much like yours. Underneath the recessive white they were black with barring, presumably to help remove the pigment from the shanks & they were also silver. They feathered up a good white.
     
  10. pips&peeps

    pips&peeps There is no "I" in Ameraucana

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    I talked to Don (Nivtup) and he said all the chicks were looking white to him that he hatched from my eggs. I also have word out to another member here who is in the last few days of incubation.

    I think at this point I will just wait until the birds are feathered out quite a few more weeks before I make any hasty decisions.

    But, I will make sure when I start hatching to only keep chicks with the correct down color, like the one on the far right and in the middle of my picture, so this does not happen again.
     

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