Genetics type of question...

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by QuackerJackFarms, Oct 28, 2011.

  1. QuackerJackFarms

    QuackerJackFarms Chillin' With My Peeps

    7,880
    17
    248
    Jun 26, 2011
    Missouri
    Don't laugh, I'm a newbie to this whole genetics thing... but I'm totally researching right now..

    Here's my scenario.

    I have a couple Red Sex-Link hens that I bought at TSC. They were sold to me as RIR's but they are definitely NOT. So I have done a little research and found that probably either the mom or dad was a true RIR... right?

    So my question is, if I got a true RIR rooster, what kind of chicks would I get?

    I understand this is a totally newbie question. I'm so sorry for my ignorance. But I'm trying to learn. [​IMG] Thanks!

    I'm also thinking that they breed them this way so pullets are easily recognizable? Not sure how you can sell them as RIR's... but whatevs.


    ETA: Basically what I'm asking is if I get a RIR rooster, will I get RIR roosters, and sex-link pullets.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2011
  2. nicalandia

    nicalandia Overrun With Chickens

    6,337
    319
    288
    Jul 16, 2009
    Quote:its OK you have to start somewhere... [​IMG]



    Quote:NO.. Basicaly what you will have is a Mutts that will largely resemble RIR in coloration.... you have 2 options after the initial cross(RIR x Red Sexlinks)

    you can used the hens from that hatchings(RIR daughters) and mate them back to their RIR dad..

    OR keep the hens for laying purposes..

    what do you want? good layers? stay with the Sex link crosses, they are hard to beat at what they do, they will outlay any RIR..

    do you want RIR? you can try and do what I told you(crossing the hatching females from the RIR x sex link cross) and try to get back to RIR type...Or you can by Real RIR and save time and effor...
     
  3. QuackerJackFarms

    QuackerJackFarms Chillin' With My Peeps

    7,880
    17
    248
    Jun 26, 2011
    Missouri
    Well, my girls are for egg laying. And man, are they good at it! Huge, brown eggs. I was just studying this whole genetics thing with the silkie/sizzle eggs I have in the bator, and I thought, wonder if I should start small and just try to understand the whole sex-link thing.

    This can be overwhelming.

    Thanks for your answer though!
     
  4. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Chicken Obsessed

    20,292
    3,598
    496
    Feb 2, 2009
    Northwest Arkansas
    No laughing. We were all there at one time or another.

    I have a couple Red Sex-Link hens that I bought at TSC. They were sold to me as RIR's but they are definitely NOT. So I have done a little research and found that probably either the mom or dad was a true RIR... right?

    I really don't know what you got. TSC got those chicks from a hatchery. I'll take your word that they are not RIR. They could be Red Red Sex Links (RSL) or they might actuallty be some other distinct breed. There are a lot of different red chicken breeds out there.

    Assuming it is a RSL, you still don't know what you have. Some hatcheries sell commercial breeds of laying chickens as Red Sex Links. These are not RIR at all and usually have a lot of Leghorn in them. Some hatcheries do make their own RSL from breeds they gave on hand. Often, probably usually, the father is a RIR rooster. But some use other breeds, like New Hampshire, as the father. And several different breeds of hens can be used as the mother. I know of at least one hatchery, Meyer, that gives you a choice. If we knew which hatchery TSC got them from, it might help, but TSC use several different hatcheries to get their chicks.

    To make a RSL, the father has to be the red chicken. The mother has to have the silver gene.

    So my question is, if I got a true RIR rooster, what kind of chicks would I get?

    You would get basically red chicks that should be good egg layers, regardless of which RSL hen you have. You may have other colors and patterns mixed in there, but you should get mostly red chickens. They will not be sex links.

    I'm also thinking that they breed them this way so pullets are easily recognizable? Not sure how you can sell them as RIR's... but whatevs.

    Yes, in a RSL the male chicks will have yellow down and the pullets will have reddish down. It makes sexing them pretty easy and sure.

    The hatchery probaly did not make the mistake. They handle and sell chicks as their main business. The mistake was probably at the TSC. Handling chicks is not their main business and they may not have anyone on staff that really knows what is going on. Maybe to them, all red chicks are RIR's. Maybe someone put the chicks in the wrong bin, either initially or when they were cleaning it out. Perhaps a customer picked up the chicks from one bin and put them down in another. I don't know what happened, but what happened was probably at the TSC end.

    ETA: Basically what I'm asking is if I get a RIR rooster, will I get RIR roosters, and sex-link pullets.

    No. You can only make sex links once. After that, they are just mixes. The parents have to be pure in certain genes in a certain way. Once they are used to make sex links they are mixed, not pure or pure but on the wrong side. The first post in this thread is a pretty good description of how to make sex links.

    Tadkerson’s Sex Link Thread
    https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=261208
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2011
  5. Egghead_Jr

    Egghead_Jr Overrun With Chickens

    6,034
    831
    336
    Oct 16, 2010
    NEK, VT
    The only breed that is a true sex link I can think of is the Legbar. The other sex links are a one time cross of two breeds resulting in 100% sexable chicks. Most likely your red stars are 50% RIR, so crossing them with a RIR would result in a mutt with 75% RIR genetics but not easily sexable at hatch. Crossing those offspring pullets back to RIR father would result in 87.5% RIR gentics mutts. Eventually with line breeding and selection you can get back to RIR.

    We want a variety of Plymouth Rock not available in this area and our postal system scramble eggs, got one pullet to hatch. Long story short we're going to line breed the pullet over the next 4 years to see if we can end with a worthy rooster. It can work yet could start showing far too many flaws due to the inbreeding and we'll try another shipment of eggs.
     
  6. flyingmonkeypoop

    flyingmonkeypoop Overrun With Chickens

    3,592
    120
    268
    Apr 30, 2007
    Deer Park Washington
    Generally the red sexlinks have dom. white in them in addition to red, they are more of a white tailed red type. If my memory serves me right, when mated back to a RIR they will throw some white tailed red birds in addition to the basic reds.
     
  7. tadkerson

    tadkerson Chillin' With My Peeps

    1,984
    121
    204
    Jul 19, 2008
    Missouri
    Quote:Legbars are an auto-sexing breed.

    I agree with Mike half of the offspring will carry dominant white so the tail will be white with some white in the wings

    Tim
     
  8. QuackerJackFarms

    QuackerJackFarms Chillin' With My Peeps

    7,880
    17
    248
    Jun 26, 2011
    Missouri
    Thanks for the link. I actually printed it off to read in more detail. I agree that TCS made the mistake. Because I also got 3 Rouen ducks that ended up being Mallards.

    Here's a pic of my chicken. Basically I just went through the internet looking for what looked like my girls and it was a RSL. Thanks so much for all the info!

    Sorry she's behind my duck. Just realized I don't have any good pics of my girls!

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Chris09

    Chris09 Circle (M) Ranch

    11,005
    434
    328
    Jun 1, 2009
    Ohio
    Quote:I doubt that you got Mallards from TSC.
    In order for TSC have/ sell Mallards they would have to have a Federal Migratory Bird Permit and they don't. My bet would be that you got small Rouen ducks or large Call ducks.

    Chris
     
  10. QuackerJackFarms

    QuackerJackFarms Chillin' With My Peeps

    7,880
    17
    248
    Jun 26, 2011
    Missouri
    Interesting. Let me load a pic and see what you think.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I went with mallard because I knew they definitely were way too small for Rouens and many people on here told me they were mallards. They, at one point, flew over my house, circled 3 times and landed back in the yard. LOL.
     

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by