ve

Songster
11 Years
Jan 27, 2009
1,920
101
226
Palmetto GA
To make gold barring you can use Buff Cochin and Barred Cochin. Mix F1 witt Buff and you will have some Golden Barred.To produce Crele you have to bring barred gene into Partrige patertn.I do not know Pumpkin genetiks
 

tadkerson

Songster
11 Years
Jul 19, 2008
1,984
163
224
Missouri
Pick one project you want to produce and work on that project. So, which variety do you want to produce?

It is best to concentrate on one project at a time. Most people do not have the facilities to work on producing 3 different varieties at the same time. Maybe you do????

How about a picture of a pumpkin variety?????? Could pumpkin be buff???????

Tim
 
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tadkerson

Songster
11 Years
Jul 19, 2008
1,984
163
224
Missouri
What variety/breeds of birds do you have to work with?

Do you have a black cochin?

You will also have to find a pied breed of bird.

Tim
 

pbjmaker

Crowing
11 Years
May 9, 2008
5,554
13
263
Central Iowa
Sorry to highjack:

That is one gorgeous Barred RIR - How long did it take you to develop it?

It might give the OP an idea how much time and effort goes into creating a new color.
 
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tadkerson

Songster
11 Years
Jul 19, 2008
1,984
163
224
Missouri
It took about 2 years. I am still not satisfied with the barring. The barring is zonal on the males. The breast does not show the barring pattern. Barring does not show well on wheaten in the males and is even worse on the females. The barring gene will just dilute the red to a buff in females; the barring is barely visible. Lots of work to do. For some reason, the barring gene does not work the same as it does on a black bird. I am in the process of determining if another gene or genes can modify the barring on non black birds. In the end, I may not want the barring on the breast in order to produce a contrast between the barred and non barred parts. ???

You have to know the genetics behind a cross and the probabilities of obtaining the traits you want in a bird. In my case, the first cross was simple. The second cross required hatching over 60 chicks to get what I wanted. I knew the probabilities in the second cross required hatching a large number of chicks. I did not get exactly what I wanted but the birds were close , I obtained three males close to the genotype I wanted. In the third cross, I hatched around 30 birds and this time I got 3 females and two males that looked much better and had the genotypes I wanted in the bird. The bird in the picture only has one barring gene- I will cross him with the females and see what two barring genes look like on males. The phenotype (what the bird looks like) in the females will not change because they can only carry one barring gene.

I have already started the experimental phase of the breeding program. I have some chicks in the brooder at this time. I will see how the barring is expressed on the experimental birds.

I also did another cross not involving the the RIR and have produced a bird ( about two months old now) of a genotype that I will use to cross with the Barred RIR in the future ( this fall). This should have good body type and a different genetic make up.

My RIR do not have the body type I want, so I have produced a bird that has the correct body type to breed with the RIR.

Some people would say why not just buy a bird from someone else that has the correct body type. I say where is the challenge in buying from another person. When I am finished, the birds will be my own work and not another person's.

As you can see, I have four different ongoing projects that I hope will produce the bird I want. I also gather information from the breeding projects that add to my body of knowledge concerning genetics.

Tim
 
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Krys109uk

Songster
11 Years
Aug 6, 2008
2,389
18
181
a valley; by a brook.
That's really interesting. I wonder what causes the barring to be zonal in some birds.

I have both eWh red & buff males with pretty normal looking barring with only one barring gene yet most of the females hardly show the barring. One red female, with a blue tail, one wouldn't know she was barred at all but for a small amount of barring in the underfluff around her legs.

I've seen similar things with blues. Though this year I have had some blues with normal looking barring.
 

tadkerson

Songster
11 Years
Jul 19, 2008
1,984
163
224
Missouri
I have seen the zonal barring in blues also. The zonal barring has to be a modification of the barring gene's expression by other genes and also the presence of female hormones. I believe it is a function of the E locus gene and other modifiers. Just a guess at this time but my experimental crosses will tell me something in the future.

Krys- Could you post pictures of your barred birds.


Tim
 
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