HELP!! Eggs in lockdown and have had 2 pip and die, different causes :( Only my second hatch..

Discussion in 'Incubating & Hatching Eggs' started by AKyardbirds, Jan 13, 2014.

  1. AKyardbirds

    AKyardbirds Out Of The Brooder

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    This is going to be a bit long and potentially confusing, so bear with me. This is only our second hatch. The first we got 9 chicks out of 30, we candled and broke them open at the end and they were all liquid except one who died after he pipped, we think it was just bad luck with shipped eggs, they never even developed aside from the ones who hatched,

    This hatch, we got shipped eggs again. Some arrived (Bresse & Cream Legbars) on the same day, we had them for 2 days before the other eggs arrived (Silkies) The Silkie eggs were in the mail for 8 days! It was around Christmas so we had a ton of delays..
    We put the cream leg bars and the bresse eggs in the incubator on a Sunday night and then the Silkies we put in as soon as we got them, Tuesday morning...We honestly didn't expect any of them to be any good after being shipped and probably banged around a lot.

    Well, Friday night we just went ahead and started lock down according to when we put in the first eggs. We candled them right before taking them out of the turner and laying them flat and we have 9 silkies that were clearly alive, moving in there and had pretty good sized air sacks. We had 25 eggs total that were all developed and moving during the candling.

    Well, Saturday night (early) we had 2 Bresse hatch on their own while we were asleep. We noticed at that time that two others had pipped. This afternoon one of the ones that had pipped hatched on it's own and the other hadn't moved or shown any signs of doing anything at all in several hours, so we tried to open the hole a bit to help out but it had already died. The membrane was clear, we think it just got too rubbery and it couldn't kick out. I know it is not advised to help until several hours later, which is why we waited.

    So earlier tonight a Silkie pipped. We left him alone as he was still chirping a lot and poked his beak out occasionally but we realized he had pipped at the wrong end. We waited and did a lot of reading and just ended up totally confused. We took the egg out to make it's hole a teeny bit bigger and when we did realized there was quite a bit of blood (we hadn't even poked/prodded, just moistened the membrane with a wet q tip. We put it back in the incubator and watched it closely. We noticed it was breathing very hard and when we checked maybe 20 minutes later it had already died :( we didn't assist because of the blood, but now I feel bad! We peeled back the shell a bit to see what had gone wrong and there was a lot more blood. My boyfriend ended up doing the rest and saw that the yolk had never absorbed, so it was obviously not ready.


    Ok, so here are my questions, if anyone is still with me (Sorry I am so new to all of this and so worried it's all my fault!)

    1. Is it likely that we will have this problem with a lot of the silkies and could it be due to their extended time in the mail and putting them directly in the incubator without allowing them to rest first?

    2. What could have caused the other to pip and then die even though it appeared to be developed and have clear membrane?

    I should add that we tried to keep the humidity around 45-50 throughout the incubation but we have had quite a few cold nights here and our house gets down to 66 degrees some nights. We adjusted it by adding water anytime we checked it if it was low, the lowest I saw it get was one morning down to 26. We have the incubator right near our kitchen so check it morning/night so even if it got low it was likely only low for a few hours before we adjusted it.

    We have them in an automatic turner, the first hatch we hand turned 3x a day but wanted to try a turner this time to see if it yielded better results.


    3.The humidity for the lockdown has stayed between 65-75, is that too high or too low? Could that be causing problems?
    We have the vent open in the top as well, is that an issue?


    I'm sorry for the essay, I just feel awful knowing they were all in there moving just a few days ago and really hope we don't lose a bunch of them due to being ill-prepared!

    Hoping for any advice you can give me, I think I am freaking out more than I need to since I am still so new at this, I just feel so bad for the two we lost and want to prevent it again if we can again.

    I've read the page that details everything to do and when (if necessary) to intervene, but still don't feel confident. I just worry that all the silkie eggs will pip on the wrong side and we will lose them due to the shipping.

    Last and final question (I haven't written this much since I had to write papers in high school)

    4. Is it a problem that we put the Silkie eggs in 2 days after the others? Will having them on lockdown at the same time and early for them cause them to have issues?


    Thank you so much if you read all that!
     
  2. ZielinskiFarm

    ZielinskiFarm Out Of The Brooder

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    Hoping I can help a little at least... This is our 3rd hatch so not much more experience, but we have made plenty of mistakes and are in the middle of lockdown right now.

    1. We have hatched silkies from mail order without letting them rest. When you candled last, if the air cell was at the large part of the egg, it will be fine. Silkies, in our experience are a little more fragile than a standard chick. Extended time in the mail is not good, but it's probably ok. Our silkies hatched day 19, It seems smaller breeds hatch sooner in our experience.

    2. Sometimes, that just happens, We've had some pip and die, sometimes it seems to be the egg rolled the wrong way, sometimes there's no apparent reason they die. Maybe they're just not strong enough to hatch. I'm sure it happens under a hen too... Take it as a survival of the fittest thing. They can get "shrink wrapped" if the humidity drops suddenly, the membrane can stick to them and keep them from moving, so try not to open the incubator at all during lockdown. If you end up helping, keep the membrane moist as you work, with a drop of water on your finger, touch the membrane and it will keep it wet. I read that somewhere on this site but couldn't find it. Turning is good for us at 3x/day. We do it by hand. 45-50 should be fine for the first 17-18 days of incubation.

    3. Humidity was ok, We try to get it to 80% humidity for lockdown, just make sure the chicks can't get into any water you put in the incubator. We live in AZ so for the first 17 days of Incubation, we usually have 30% humidity. It's hard to keep it up any higher than that... For lockdown, we create a larger surface area and turn off the fan to achieve 80%. Close the vent for lockdown.

    4. I would say no, Silkie eggs added 2 days later is probably not an issue. I would expect putting Standard breed in with bantam 2 days later would be worse, because silkies have always hatched early for us. Our last batch we put in lockdown on day 19, and had an internal pip. That chick hatched about 5 hours later... It's ideal to put them in at the same time but I've heard of people doing it this way successfully. [​IMG]

    Hang in there and try to be patient, we don't help unless it's been 12 hours no progress, and our last hatch rate on shipped eggs was 7 hatched out of 12. 3 of the 7 were silkies. We also let them incubate until day 24, just in case we have late bloomers... Hope this helps or at least gives you some piece of mind. [​IMG] and let me know how it works out.[​IMG]
     
  3. ZielinskiFarm

    ZielinskiFarm Out Of The Brooder

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  4. AKyardbirds

    AKyardbirds Out Of The Brooder

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    Thank you so much, I will read through it. I know I am just impatient, it's always a been a problem. We have two more (a silkie and a legbar) that pipped this morning so hoping they do ok. All the air sacks were in the right place when we candled so I think maybe that silkie just had bad luck, this one pipped at the right end so fingers crossed. We have the humidity/temp displaying on our incubator showing up differently then another one that we have. One reads the humidity at 65 (on the incubator) and the other reads at 81. I'm not really sure which is accurate so I hope that isn't messing us up. We are using a different incubator than the first time, we got a different model with one large viewing window as opposed to our last that had two smaller windows.

    Thanks again so much for the advice, I will try to stay patient and keep out of there until we have more luck.

    Will it be a problem with the chick staying in? What will it eat? We did move 2 that hatched first to a brooder and they are already running around pecking and eating food/drinking water. Will the others be okay in the incubator for the duration of the hatch??
     
  5. gimmie birdies

    gimmie birdies Overrun With Chickens

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    people think pip means hatch but pip mean they want air then rest maybe up to 24 hrs before full hatch. heavy breathing is because they need time to get used to our air. blood when helping means don't help, they are not ready to hatch, and yolk not absorbed.I hope the rest of your hatch goes well.
     
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  6. ZielinskiFarm

    ZielinskiFarm Out Of The Brooder

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    Yes. Great info! Blood means stop! Thanks gimmie! [​IMG]

    They will be ok in the incubator, they don't need to eat or drink for 3 days. I move mine when they are being destructive to the hatching eggs, I did have one death last time that seemed to be the egg was rolled over by the chicks, and it suffocated. You just have to be careful the others don't dry out. [​IMG] I have trouble waiting too!! [​IMG]
     
  7. AKyardbirds

    AKyardbirds Out Of The Brooder

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    Thank you. I know what pip means i may have worded things wrong. The one with the blood we never punctured anything only moistened the membrane and noticed blood that didnt appear to be "veins" when we put it back in we noticed the heavy breathing for a bit and,then no movement. Its beak was open and when we took him out we saw he had died and blood was pooling a little when my boyfriend peeled back the shell to see what happened. We at least read enough to know to stop assisting if u see blood but we never got to assist with the one before noticing it! :(
     
  8. ZielinskiFarm

    ZielinskiFarm Out Of The Brooder

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    Oh the poor baby! So sorry! I just partially assisted one that pipped on the side of the egg. Hope she makes it! No blood but we cleared enough to make sure she could breathe, I hope she does it on her own from here... She was the very first pip but has been struggling. I'm sure the one that bled on you was just too weak to make it. Still very sad! [​IMG]
     
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  9. gimmie birdies

    gimmie birdies Overrun With Chickens

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    Well I didn't necessarily mean you when I said some people don't know about the pip- meaning to say I see people write in the threads, "my egg has pipped and not moving should I help?" I did see that you said you didn't help which was good, but since you were new I was just putting it out there. Kinda "just sayin'
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
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  10. AKyardbirds

    AKyardbirds Out Of The Brooder

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    I understand! I dont know much aside from that haha!
    I worry too much. I know they say not to count your chickens before they hatch but its sad knowing so many were in there doing ok at lockdown and have now struggled :(
    Is it common to go several days? How long should you wait until you give up.

    Its been "lockdown" since Friday night and so far weve had 4 Bresse hatch (1 died) and 1 cream leg bar (lost 1 silkie too)

    So 5 hatched and 2 dead out of 25 eggs. Should we just keep waiting for several days? There are 2 more that have pipped but no action besides that, they are also silkies. They just pipped this morning so thats a total of 9 out of the 25 since Friday and we had seen movement in all of the eggs during candling that night
     

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