HELP!! Integrating new chicks with older hens

[wendorfa]

I am having a horrible time integrating my Ameraucana chicks with the older girls. I tried when they were younger keeping them separated with a fence in the run and letting babies sleep in a crate in the coop at night. Older hens somehow got over the fence and pecked babies bloody. So I separated until babies healed. Then I tried the crate in the run and crate inside the coop at night. The babies are 18 weeks old now so they are a pretty good size.

We are on day five and they REFUSE to stop picking on the darker, bigger baby. Yesterday we made it until 4 pm and then they pecked her again. This morning I found the smaller shielding the bigger baby. When I moved her, I could see her sister was bloody again. I've also been covering her when something similar to blue kote but it's actually the color of her feathers. It does not help. There are multiple waterers, feed stations, plenty of scratch and veggies, and multiple roosts, plus they can be in the coop or outside on the run. What do I do now? I should also add my older hens are 2 Barred Rocks and 1 Buff Orpington. All raised together.

 

[aart]

Room is not an issue. Even if all 5 were out on the run there's 12.8 sq feet per bird and 3.2 inside which is more than most people I know. Nesting boxes hang on the outside (strangely enough nobody uses them) and nobody uses the roost inside. I guess I have weird girls. Right now I need to re home the roo and find another hen. Sigh.

Room absolutely is an issue.
The sqft number you post for your coop is too small for 5 birds hatched and grown up together,
integration takes extra room. It's no wonder you're seeing the carnage you're seeing...and probably why they are not using the roosts.

 

[lazy gardener]

Aart speaks with the voice of experience. Integrating birds into a small coop and run is a recipe for disaster. If I were faced with that much space limitation, I think I'd work under the principle: All in/all out. Which means: Start chicks. Raise them together until they are no longer laying well. Then cull them, and start a new group of chicks. I stick by my original statement: A small flock with a small coop and run require MORE than the recommended minimum of 4 s.f in coop and 10 s.f. in run per bird due to their social requirements. And in a coop/run of that size, I'd NEVER put more than 3 birds in it.

 

[Mrs. K]

What does your run look like? And how much space do you have? Measure it. Often times on here, I will see a run that is just an open rectangle. This makes the run nearly 2 dimensional, and really wastes the third dimension of height.

In a run, where the chickens should be spending most of their day, there should be places where a bird can get out of the sight of another bird. When two birds meet, they often determine who has dominance, with the dominant bird standing her ground, and the lower bird moving away from her. In a smaller run, there often is not enough space for this bird to move far enough away to show submission, which can upset the dominant bird into a harder stronger attack to prove her point. If the submissive bird disappears into a hide out, the dominant bird is satisfied and peace is in the flock. She does not have to stay disappeared, generally I have seen my lower birds, run away, out of sight, the dominant bird goes back to eating and a few seconds later the submissive bird is back beside her, no problem.

Your younger birds are the submissive birds until they begin to lay. So in your run you need some hide outs. Pallets are cheap and excellent, one can wire them up right in a corner, just make sure there are two exits, so as not to create a trap. Place a pallet up on cement blocks, so the smaller birds can get under it. The bigger birds will fit, but it will slow them down. Or put a pallet up of saw horses, so that birds can get under it in some shade or on top of it to roost. Set up some roosts in the corner, my birds love to roost in the late evening sun or early morning sun. And put a pallet up vertically in the middle of the run, Use some fence posts to hold it up. And put a feed and waterer behind it, so that a bird can eat there out of the sight of the main feeder.

As for space, it might be that your run/coop is not big enough for 4 birds, but I think it is because the little ones just have no way to show submission. Now after you make these changes, let your older birds out in the yard for just a bit, put your younger birds in the set up, and then move around in there, toward them so that they find the hideouts, then let the older birds in, they should come right back in with some treats. If there is still problem, put those older birds in the chick pen, and let the chicks in the bigger space for a couple of days.

Good luck,

Mrs K

 

[lazy gardener]

IMO, your coop and run are too small for that many birds. the smaller the flock, the more room they require per bird due to the fact that even with the recommended 4 s.f. in coop and 10 s.f. in run per bird, there is not enough room for the birds being pecked on to get far enough away to satisfy chicken behavior protocol. I'm guessing that your coop is not big enough for the youngsters to be on roost without being attacked from below by the older birds. Also, are the nest boxes part of that 4 x 4 foot print, or are they hanging on the outside? How tall is the coop area, and how tall is the run?

 

[SueT]

Hi Wendorfa, I am subscribing to your thread to see the advice given. I have two young pullets (11 weeks) that I am trying to integrate with 2 hens who will not accept them. So the coop and the run are divided. There are so many integration success stories in the forums. Are some just doomed to failure? I hope you find a solution! Good luck!

 

[wendorfa]

I think I might have found a solution!! Whenever I would go out the bigger hens were like la de dah, we aren't bothering anybody. Well I finally saw my BO hen (who loves to make sounds like a rooster on occasion and has been bossy in the past) peck one of the babies legs. I shooed her into the coop and she's been locked in for about 4 hours now. I've repeatedly checked and the babies are walking all around with the two Barred Rocks!

Now my next question is do I let them all together tonight and lock her in again around 6 am when they get up? At night they are just sleeping anyway. Or do I crate her away from everyone (or lock her onto the run, the temps are mild) and back into the coop in the morning?

 

[SueT]

On some forums they have claimed that locking up a bullying hen for a few days can change the pecking order. But I have no experience of this myself. You might want to search the archives for info on bullies.

 

[wendorfa]

Do you know if it's just one of yours doing the bullying? Also I tried when they were younger and if was clear it was a no go. They are 18 weeks now so closer in size to the adults.

 

[SueT]

Well I am not letting them in together. Both hens try to attack the pullets thru the fence. They seem relentless about it. Maybe it wouldn't be too bad, I'll try when they are equal size....