Help picking a winner?

[syble]

I'd like some input on tibetan tuxedo coturnix. I have a good idea what i strive for pattern wise, but curious as to the ideal tux pattern? I had a good batch hatch that I'm growing out, there were some poor examples (extended white bib, or incomplete white), but I'm left with 4 possible males to choose from and can't reall decide which suits me best?

Bachelor #1


Bachelor #2


Bachelor #3


Bachelor #4


Each one of them have things i like and dont like. I like the patterning on the hens much better:

 

[jbobs]

well I'm not expert on the "standard" (if there even is one??) but i think the ideal is to have a full white breast and flank with as even a line as possible. #1 could have more white on his flanks but his head pattern is kinda nice. #3 has really nice flanks, just a white band around his head. The others have a bit too much white. I found with my tuxedos I had a hard time keeping enough white on them. They often turned out mostly range with white bowties so I tried to breed them with more and more white. if I had to pick my own favorite bird it would be #3 with #1 as second. All nice looking birds though!

 

[JHorn91180]

Not qualified at all to give u advice on which is more correct as I dont know. Just wanted to say I like option #2 the best and if I needed a male and u had those 4 for sale thats the one I would buy.

 

[TwoCrows]

I think the tux's are quite stunning looking birds! You have a nice group of boys there!

 

[syble]

thanks guys, I found at first too much color and not enough white was the problem too, but now i'm to the point where out of a batch of tuxes i have atleast 75% that are acceptable, and the remaining 25% have that weird bow tie or the like, my friend called me a quail snob because i call them poor excuses for tuxes lol. I was very pleased with the way the hens turned out in this batch though, by far better then the boys lol.

I think I may end up keeping 2 males, I like #1 (but he needed more white and less ragged color margin) and I like #3 he could have used a tad more color but his margins are better. I think if i was keeping #2 i would have to use him with solids, other wise he would probably throw alot of full out pied babies? #4 would probably be the same. what do you think?

 

[bfrancis]

I like #1 and #3 the best. #2 is a neat looking bird, but not sure if I would want to incorporate him in a breeding program for public market. For your own projects, he could be interesting to see the outcomes.

As far a "throw a lot of pied"...no more or less than another...using the Punnet's square, mathematically, the outcome would be the same.

Good luck with whatever your choice....post pics of the F2 generation and talk about the outcomes! Genetics are interesting stuff.

 

[MobyQuail]

beautiful birds. as far as any "standard" this could be one in itself.

I like your work Syble. +1

Your girls are almost clones of each other. I know Digger is really into Tuxes, will have to drag him over here.

I like #1 and #3. Tibetan Tuxedo Coturnix Wh Wh Br+Br+ yw+yw+ EE Pipi+

talking "theory of" doublepied... if wildtype is no pied, and tuxedo is single pied and english white is double pied, and double pied is double pied = 2 spots...

so lets say your perfect tux hens are all single pied (tux)

and cockbird #1 is single pied (tuxedo) but cockbird #3 is actually doublepied and has t distinct "spots"

if we cross single pied (tuxedo) with single pied (tuxedo) we will get birds with 0 1 and 2 pied genes? and may throw "solid" birds?




now, wondering, thoughts,
if we cross a single pied bird with a double pied bird, we should only get birds with 1 and 2 pied genes. and so... no solid birds?




so, now that your are narrowing in, wondering if you were seeing the first case scenario at all going back a few generations?

I know we are both looking at the table at the same height, wondering if this is making sense to you and so then helps make more sense to me?

again, nice work. nice birds, nice cages.

 

[syble]

As far a "throw a lot of pied"...no more or less than another...using the Punnet's square, mathematically, the outcome would be the same.

I think i'm gonna have to disagree with you here.
Mathematics and actuality often differ in the field of breeding lol. When I have used tuxes with too much white before, they have usually yeilded approximately 50% identical them themselves (too much white but reasonably acceptable), 25% way too much white, and 25% more color. mind you, I also know that at least locally, people will buy the over white ones faster then the ones with too much color haha.

Mobyquail, you lost me some where lol

I was always under the impression pied and tux were the same thing, just a mater of expression. what ever these birds are, they are all genetically the same. I have one tux male (pretty decent if a little heavy on color) the was bred to an assortment of solid tibetan & rosetta hens. those birds pictured were among the resulting offspring.

I'm also a bit lost about the wild part to, i've got a nice forming pen of wild tuxes too lol.

Got to love a good convo!
Sib

 

[bfrancis]

I think i'm gonna have to disagree with you here.
Mathematics and actuality often differ in the field of breeding lol. When I have used tuxes with too much white before, they have usually yeilded approximately 50% identical them themselves (too much white but reasonably acceptable), 25% way too much white, and 25% more color. mind you, I also know that at least locally, people will buy the over white ones faster then the ones with too much color haha.
Mobyquail, you lost me some where lol
I was always under the impression pied and tux were the same thing, just a mater of expression. what ever these birds are, they are all genetically the same. I have one tux male (pretty decent if a little heavy on color) the was bred to an assortment of solid tibetan & rosetta hens. those birds pictured were among the resulting offspring.
I'm also a bit lost about the wild part to, i've got a nice forming pen of wild tuxes too lol.
Got to love a good convo!
Sib

Mathematically, out of the four birds she showed, not one would do better or worse than any of the other as far as breeding. The breeding outcome would be the same regardless of which bird she used to as the male. I agree with what you wrote, and was implying the same thing. You wrote out what a punnet square is. Thank you though for clarifying my answer. Sometimes I forget who my over-all audience is and need to write things out more.

Moby as always, great stuff!

 

[JHorn91180]

I'm new but will have to agree u will probably get about the same results with whichever male u use but color maybe varying in #s on the offspring. Just an idea but I chose #3 because I thought he was the prettiest. I would use him to breed over dark pied females or females showing very little white but r still pied if that makes any sense. Maybe that would give u more consistency in the pied offspring. Again I'm new to Cots but this is the same logic I have used when I was breeding pied peafowl and mottled chickens that I had the most success with evening out the color in the offspring and getting the most evenly pied offspring per hatch. Just an idea and something to think about. Cant really explain to u why or exactly how but this did work best for me in other fowl to approach it that way as I'm not sure its possible to get them to the point where they breed true and all the chicks look like clones of each other. From my understanding so far, seems like u will always get some that r solid white who received a white copy from each pied parent just like u would breeding pied peafowl and pied guineas. The other male in the last pic (I think) with way too much white would work well for this too.