HELP! Rooster with weak legs, twisting neck

[Olandpoohandchickens]

Wanted to provide as much information as possible, so everything is listed below. Phone call with the vet suggested it’s Marek but I want to ask for your opinions and see if anyone had similar experiences.

Thank you all very much! Not a good start to my chicken keeping...

1) What type of bird , age and weight (does the chicken seem or feel lighter or thinner than the others.)
5-6 months old, leghorn mix, healthy, unchanged weight
2) What is the behavior, exactly.
Started with neck twisting/shaking last week, noticed maybe 3 times a day. 3 days ago noticed more head shaking and his legs were weak. Looked like he was “drunk”.
3) How long has the bird been exhibiting symptoms?
It has been a week. Progressively getting worse. Today he was falling backwards while trying to eat/move around.
4) Are other birds exhibiting the same symptoms?
Not at all.
5) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma.
No. Eyes bright, feathers shining, comb and wattles bright red, clean bum.
6) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation.
Nutrient deficiency? Changed to a GMO free layer feed which the store said was ok to feed to roosters. Feed has added Vitamin A, E, and D but no B.
Toxins?? Had to use some caulking around the coop window to fix some leaking, chickens might have ingested some? I’m not sure. But I posted his symptoms in one of our local poultry groups and two other people noticed similar symptoms in some of their flocks but have told me all have gone better. We were suspecting incorrect usage of pesticides from the city or others around us. But my bird is not showing signs of improvement.
7) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all.
Drinking and eating normally. They all get yogurt and ACV everyday.
8) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc.
Poop looks normal except one from today was a little bit foamy.
9) What has been the treatment you have administered so far?
I have not used any. Just added electrolytes and multi vitamins since this morning.
10 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet?
I have no idea. I have called a local avian vet and he said it’s likely Marek. Suggested to watch him for further paralysis. I’m not sure if it’s Marek? We have 9 other chickens, none have any symptoms.
11) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help.
12) Describe the housing/bedding in use
Aspen shavings in coop. Free range during the day.
Additional information: He’s showing normal rooster behaviors, food calling, dancing at other roosters. He runs towards me when being called, is eating like a piggy as usual. Head/neck twisting frequency has increased in the last two days and his legs seemed to be weaker today than last two days.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I actually agree with Marek's as a possibility...

No other bird has to display symptoms for it to be real. They all have different immune systems. My whole family doesn't catch the flu every time someone does. Viruses prey on weakness... maybe weakness we can't detect.

Nutrient deficit is what most people hope and treat for... your feed may not list B as added... but it's there with different names being used like thiamine and maybe riboflavin. All feeds WILL meet very specific standards by law. Nutrient deficit IS still possible... if you feed too many low nutrient treats like corn or scratch. Also if you ever had to treat for coccidiosis when younger their could be absorption issues lingering...

I won't personally use "layer" feed for my roosters as those not in lay fed excess calcium long term *can* (doesn't mean will) get gout or even kidney failure. It is considered safe and many people do feed it to their roosters.

So.. if it isn't Marek's (or even if it is, you won't know for sure unless you get a necropsy even if he does fully recover) and you wanna save this boy... I'm going to suggest poultry nutri drench it has added amino acids that other supplements don't. I would also offer boiled or scrambled egg as TREAT/supplement as they are loaded with nutrients. You MIGHT try specifically using an E supplement... and a B complex maybe a little canned tuna or mackerel... if I'm remembering correctly aside from being great sources of protein (animal protein is rich in amino acids), I think it may also be high in selenium... which can be key.

Should you loose him or decide to dispatch... I recommend refrigerating and sending for necropsy. Since my state vet said they THOUGHT my limping case 2 years ago was Marek's I didn't pursue. No one showed signs in my flock of 82+ since then... until I got a juvenile with torticollis (same thing your boy has) just yesterday... And now I too am stuck wondering. I quarantine upon display of anything abnormal. While others may have already been exposed... I won't allow actively shedding virus among my flock... creating even MORE exposure. With no sign of pain, swelling, redness, or heat to the touch and not seeing an accident... I have to figure Marek's. Unfortunately, my quarantine was a box on the other side of my house and the chick was gone due to a predator when I came back to dispatch... so I won't be able to know what really happened.

But here are some links should you choose to follow through...
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-to-send-a-bird-for-a-necropsy-pictures.799747/

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf

Also.. the most accurate information I have seen all in one place regarding Marek's...
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/

I am sorry you face this. Wish I could be more encouraging.

I hope he recovers quickly!

 

[Olandpoohandchickens]

I actually agree with Marek's as a possibility...

No other bird has to display symptoms for it to be real. They all have different immune systems. My whole family doesn't catch the flu every time someone does. Viruses prey on weakness... maybe weakness we can't detect.

Nutrient deficit is what most people hope and treat for... your feed may not list B as added... but it's there with different names being used like thiamine and maybe riboflavin. All feeds WILL meet very specific standards by law. Nutrient deficit IS still possible... if you feed too many low nutrient treats like corn or scratch. Also if you ever had to treat for coccidiosis when younger their could be absorption issues lingering...

I won't personally use "layer" feed for my roosters as those not in lay fed excess calcium long term *can* (doesn't mean will) get gout or even kidney failure. It is considered safe and many people do feed it to their roosters.

So.. if it isn't Marek's (or even if it is, you won't know for sure unless you get a necropsy even if he does fully recover) and you wanna save this boy... I'm going to suggest poultry nutri drench it has added amino acids that other supplements don't. I would also offer boiled or scrambled egg as TREAT/supplement as they are loaded with nutrients. You MIGHT try specifically using an E supplement... and a B complex maybe a little canned tuna or mackerel... if I'm remembering correctly aside from being great sources of protein (animal protein is rich in amino acids), I think it may also be high in selenium... which can be key.

Should you loose him or decide to dispatch... I recommend refrigerating and sending for necropsy. Since my state vet said they THOUGHT my limping case 2 years ago was Marek's I didn't pursue. No one showed signs in my flock of 82+ since then... until I got a juvenile with torticollis (same thing your boy has) just yesterday... And now I too am stuck wondering. I quarantine upon display of anything abnormal. While others may have already been exposed... I won't allow actively shedding virus among my flock... creating even MORE exposure. With no sign of pain, swelling, redness, or heat to the touch and not seeing an accident... I have to figure Marek's. Unfortunately, my quarantine was a box on the other side of my house and the chick was gone due to a predator when I came back to dispatch... so I won't be able to know what really happened.

But here are some links should you choose to follow through...
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-to-send-a-bird-for-a-necropsy-pictures.799747/

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf

Also.. the most accurate information I have seen all in one place regarding Marek's...
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/

I am sorry you face this. Wish I could be more encouraging.

I hope he recovers quickly!

Oh wow, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and experience! I’m going to make some boiled eggs and feed him that as treats. I’ve just started using electrolytes and multivitamins so I will see what happens in the next few days. We did get 6 new hens (~2-3 months old at the time) about 2 months ago but I know a chicken can be a carrier of the virus for a very long time before showing any symptoms. I honestly Think nutrient deficiency is very unlikely because he literally is the chicken that eats the most! They all get yogurt, game bird seeds, greens, and scraps as treats besides whatever they find free ranging and their feed.
I’m going to look for nutrient drench, I’m in Canada, not sure if we would get the same products but there must be something similar.

Thank you again for taking the time to write to me! I know this is nature but I can’t help but to be emotional. I guess whatever happens next I can only learn from it and be better prepared in the future. I sure hope he will fully recover!

 

[Olandpoohandchickens]

If it did turn out to be Marek, do I need to closet flock?

 

[gummybear61]

My hen had a twisted neck last year. I took her to er. (If you can) the er dr told me right away to put her down because it may be Marek and gave me n anti inflammatory med for her. . Luckily I didnt do that I took her to me regular vet and he took time with her and called a specialist and took text and xrays. Our conclusion wa as she was lacking in vitamins. He prescribed me some more anti inflammatory meds and gave me specific med to help her and also told me what vitamins to buy. I was happy to say about 2wks later her knack wasnt twisted.
I had for someone to uthinise their pets if there was another way. Try the vitamin route first if it doesnt help seek medical help and say the LAST RESORT for last....
Keep your roo secluded for awhile or your other peeps will pick on him or if he is sick to stop contaminating the others....

 

[Olandpoohandchickens]

My hen had a twisted neck last year. I took her to er. (If you can) the er dr told me right away to put her down because it may be Marek and gave me n anti inflammatory med for her. . Luckily I didnt do that I took her to me regular vet and he took time with her and called a specialist and took text and xrays. Our conclusion wa as she was lacking in vitamins. He prescribed me some more anti inflammatory meds and gave me specific med to help her and also told me what vitamins to buy. I was happy to say about 2wks later her knack wasnt twisted.
I had for someone to uthinise their pets if there was another way. Try the vitamin route first if it doesnt help seek medical help and say the LAST RESORT for last....
Keep your roo secluded for awhile or your other peeps will pick on him or if he is sick to stop contaminating the others....

Thank you for your reply!
I should clarify that my roo doesn’t have a twisted neck but he’s shaking/twisting his neck and head a lot, almost like something is bothering his ears. But that’s a minor sign compared to his weak legs. I’m so afraid he might be paralised soon. But I agree, I’m definitely going to try adding vitamins first! I love my roo, I’m going to try everything I can to save him.
Thank you again and glad you were able to save yours!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Oh wow, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and experience! I’m going to make some boiled eggs and feed him that as treats. I’ve just started using electrolytes and multivitamins so I will see what happens in the next few days. We did get 6 new hens (~2-3 months old at the time) about 2 months ago but I know a chicken can be a carrier of the virus for a very long time before showing any symptoms. I honestly Think nutrient deficiency is very unlikely because he literally is the chicken that eats the most! They all get yogurt, game bird seeds, greens, and scraps as treats besides whatever they find free ranging and their feed.
I’m going to look for nutrient drench, I’m in Canada, not sure if we would get the same products but there must be something similar.

Thank you again for taking the time to write to me! I know this is nature but I can’t help but to be emotional. I guess whatever happens next I can only learn from it and be better prepared in the future. I sure hope he will fully recover!

I was thinking about this last evening...

If it is an electrolyte vitamin pack... I would skip the electrolytes unless he has been off water or had diarrhea... those can actually be overdosed... And do the vitamins at least a few doses directly to the beak... A standard amount of supplement in water that would be used on a bird who may not need them will NOT be sufficient to correct the issue.

Putting your general location in your profile can help to make more appropriate suggestions without having to ask first.

While I truly don't believe my recent case was vitamin deficit either... My recent hatches have had a lot of early quitters, plus some splay leg and bent toes... when I work very hard to maintain quality of my genetics. Upon researching... all indicators say vitamin deficit (other possibilities seemingly ruled out). So frustrating not knowing the whole truth.

Yes this is nature, but that doesn't make it easy. It's OK to be emotional about it.

Have you ever had a fecal float ran... internal parasite load could cause nutrient deficit even in a bird who eats the most. I won't worm without confirmation it is needed though... as only large round worms and tape worms will ever be seen in droppings and all others will stay in the digestive track and only their microscopic oocysts (eggs) will pass. Of course an external parasite load could also cause an issue, though I might expect that to be a bit more obvious, definitely check him for mites and lice if you haven't already. Night time with a flash light is best as it makes things much easier to see.

@rebrascora @Eggcessive are you able to offer suggestions here?

gave me n anti inflammatory med for her. . Luckily I didnt do that I took her to me regular vet and he took time with her and called a specialist and took text and xrays. Our conclusion wa as she was lacking in vitamins. He prescribed me some more anti inflammatory meds and gave me specific med to help her and also told me what vitamins to buy. I was happy to say about 2wks later her knack wasnt twisted.

Please, if you can and don't mind... will you share what tests were performed in addition to the x-rays, what anti inflammatory they gave you, and why or how an anti inflammatory was to help the twisted neck if it was't an injury? Also was the specialist just an Avian Vet or something else? What was the specific med he gave you to help her and what vitamins and dosage they had you give for what age and breed of chicken? Had there been an actual reason for deficit in your case such as excess treats, bullying, or incorrect feed being used? And what did it cost you at the end of the day?

The support and info you offered is great!

But this information might be extremely helpful!

For me... if I suspect Marek's... euthanasia is a first resort not a last one. I need to protect the rest of my flock. But also more than that... even if it was JUST a vitamin deficit... in a bird with NO reason to have it.. that is genetic weakness... and since I breed... I don't want that bred into my flock... therefor... I believe even in the case of simple vitamin deficit... I will still cull. That would most likely mean eliminating the bird. But it took me many year to arrive at this conclusion, and I know it won't be the right answer for MANY. Unfortunately... with Marek's you can see recovery and think that wasn't it... but it may rear it's ugly head again... plenty of birds live WITH Marek's KNOWN to be effecting them.

Regarding a closed flock... Marek's cannot be passed to hatching eggs/embryos... so I consider incubator chicks and eggs safe to go out, presuming there was some sort of quarantine followed after collection. I don't personally feel like letting birds go with no symptoms is any different than letting birds go that have been vaccinated... as they can still be unidentified carriers, typhoid Mary's essentially... and in fact NO vaccinated birds welcome here. If you decide or confirm it is Marek's... you will have to decide when you bring in new birds if they will be vaccinated and quarantined long enough for it to take effect. Or if they will be unvaccinated and have to use whatever natural resistance they have on board. There was one gene identified that does create resistance to Marek's. Vaccinated birds can still get Marek's they are just less likely to get the tumors that push on the nerves that cause the symptom of paralysis. If you can't accept any loss... vaccinated might be the right choice for you.

Also... can you post a short video using youtube or vimeo and upload or link here so we can see? Maybe someone else has seen this and can offer more insight! It sounds neurological... but SO many things are and so many thing can look like Marek's that aren't! Any chance there was an auto oil spill, recent herbicide or pesticides applied, poisonous plants, rotting carcass, or rotting compost? I really try to look at the whole picture and not jump to conclusions.

Whether you choose to let adult birds off your pasture or not... It wouldn't be ideal. In the US... Marek's is not even considered report able since it isn't a threat to our food supply chain AND "is considered to be in EVERY poultry environment". With disclosure, so people can make their own choice... maybe.

I recommend not bringing in any birds that have ever been to pasture or broody raised to your place again. For me Marek's isn't nearly as scary as respiratory disease or some other things that can pass to the egg... But I am on a nonstop learning journey... even after more than 9 years there are still things I am learning and have so far to go. And my take may change with new information.

It was a difficult choice to process our own cockerels. But having the skill to help in the need of illness or injury and knowing I am doing so efficiently without adding more harm or pain especially when looking in the eyes of a bird that has been with us and we are attached is quite a blessing. I'm thankful for every day and every life! It doesn't make you cold... it basically brings me full circle in understanding how it is ALL interconnected. More aware of my personal consumption and I am humbled by the sheer amazement of what a miracle LIFE is!

 

[Eggcessive]

It sounds like Mareks to me. I would seek a necropsy by your state vet if he dies, to confirm Mareks. The body must be kept refrigerated and shipped or taken as soon as possible. Here is a link about state vets for contact:
http://www.metzerfarms.com/PoultryLabs.cfm

Most chicken vitamins contain electrolytes, except for Poultry Booster by Rooster Booster. Using a crushed Vitamin B Complex tablet daily in the feed is good. I cannot understand why a chicken feed would not contain added B vitamins. Can you recheck the label for thiamine, riboflavin, niacin, pyridoxine?

 

[gummybear61]

Flan my hen Rhode island red she was 1 1/2 years old she just passed yesterday from cancer.
When we 1st got her she was a few days old. Jer neck became twisted after a couple of weeks she was still secluded from the rest of my flock but I kept her with her 2 sisters because she was still so small.
When he neck became twisted we took her to er. The vet there just gave up right aways amd told me kill her she gave me a pain med for what ever reason. As my chickens are not my live stock they are my actual pets. I got a second opinion right away the following days with our regular vet.
He examined her she was very healthy other than. He too question defect disease and so on. But he went out of his way to look into it further. And since it's hard to tell disease unless death he began calling around to specialist. He said it's easy to cull your flock to avoid a spread but he knew I wanted to try to save her.
At the er they did xray and gave us the anti inflammatory meds. Xrays where done to see if she had some type of metal in her. Anti inflammatory meds was given for any pain or discomfort she may be feeling due to her neck being twisted (animals feel pain to).
The er ended being more moneythN the regular vet.i spent a few 100 there. (Again she was our pet part of our family).
When I took her to our regular vet he examined the xray again and weighed out metal in her blood. He took blood test for other thing but she was fine. Other than her neck she was pretty healthy. He worked with me and we came up with the best plan. I continued to give her the anti inflammatory meds he gave me and avion multi vitamin I think it was 1 scoop per so many ounces and told me to give he vitamin e drops 3 orally. We watched her and after a week or two she was back to her self. Her regular vet only cost about 150.
I know every scenario is different but I took my chance and gave her life for another year and a half. She passed from cancer which the er vet said it was to wildly spread to keep her alive. That with her age to use 1 1/2 is not old but in chickens that is considered old. My poor girl hid her pain real well and I check the 1x a week thoroughly for any changes.
We are gonna miss her

 

[Eggcessive]

Sorry about Flan. She sounds like you really took good care of her, and she was a pretty hen.