Help with Back Sex-Links (pics)

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by G Wiz Ranch, Jan 12, 2010.

  1. G Wiz Ranch

    G Wiz Ranch Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I am having an issue with my Black Sex-Link chicks not all being BSL's. I have a Rhode Island Red roo segregated with 7 Barred Rock Hens and 2 Cuckoo Maran. They have been segregated from the rest of my flock for several months. There is no chance that any other roo is getting to the girls, also there is no chance that I mixed the eggs with my other non breeder eggs, I was extra careful this last collection.

    We get chicks that are traditional BSL's (girls all black, boys black with dot on head), but occasional we get a yellow chick (turns out to be boys). This last hatch we got 2 that are red/brown with a stripe down the back (don't know the sex yet). We have had over 5 hatches and 100 chicks, only 4 yellow and now 2 browns.

    What do you think causes this?

    Is it the Marans?

    We know the yellow chick seems to come from the darker eggs, but our CM's don't lay very dark eggs.

    Do you think the new red/brown ones are going to be boys?


    Thanks in Advance for your help.

    Here is a picture:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Chicken Obsessed

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    I'm not a generic expert but I'll make a guess. I could easily be way off base.

    At least one of your hens is not purebreed but has a recessive gene which she contributes about half the time. Since you have 9 hens, have hatched about 100 eggs, this one hen has probably contributed about 11 eggs, and have had 6 different colored chick, I'd guess it is only one of your hens with the recessive gene.

    This is where I get very out of my area of knowledge, so take it for what little it is worth. It's fun to speculate. My guess is that the one hen does not have both dominant extended black genes but only one with the other being recessive. I suspect this would give you red sex link chicks, so I'd guess the reds are female and the yellow chicks are male.

    I'll stay tuned and hope the experts kick int to tell me how far off I am.
     
  3. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    I too would guess that at least one of your birds has a wild-type E-allele (e+); that is what the red chick at the bottom looks like. However, for that to override the other E-alleles present in the birds, it would have to be pairing up with either e+ or e^b (or possibly e^Wh and melanizers) In any case, both parents are contributing. The yellow chick looks to be e^Wh. Wheaten dominance is weird--its dominance depends on other genes present (melanizers).
     
  4. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Chicken Obsessed

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    I don't know what makes up the RIR coloring and pattern so I'm not sure what he is contributing other than just a few basics. I fully admit I am a rookie in this.

    Would the silver in the hen make for a red sex link chick, assuming the suspected Ee combo in the hen when the hen contributes the e?
     
  5. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    Quote:Barred/cuckoo birds are not necessarily silver; yes, if the hen carries silver, she will pass it to all her sons, but there is no way to tell that that is what she is without controlled matings.

    There are a number of E-alleles. E^Wh is probably in the mix with the RIR; he could have any combination of E^Wh, e+, e^b. The barred or cuckoo birds could have any of the e-alleles as long as one copy is E or E^R.

    RIR is (I think) E^Wh Co Mh; not sure what else.

    I do not believe the chicks colour is from only one parent--it requires the combination of the cock with the hen, and then the correct genes must pair up. When I played with the chicken calculator I came up with 12.5% and 25% for red or gold birds, depending on the particular choices I entered.
     
  6. Dustin Biery

    Dustin Biery Chillin' With My Peeps

    Feb 4, 2007
    Mulberry, Arkansas
    G Wiz, can you post pictures of your birds? I think pictures may (or may not) help determine if there are some other factors playing in the mix.
     
  7. G Wiz Ranch

    G Wiz Ranch Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Thanks for the responses. Quick edit note, there were 5 BR's and 2 CM's for a total of 7 hens. It is puzzling. We were thinking it is most likely 1 hen too, given the low occurrence of the "mutation". I have 22 more eggs due to hatch on Sunday 1/24. I compounded this problem by adding 7 more BR hens to the day before this last hatch.

    I will take pictures this next weekend. The original 5 BR hens we bought as chicks from the feed store (I don't know what hatchery) and the 2 CM's came from a local guy that bought them from MM Hatchery. The 7 I just added, I bought from Ideal and they started laying in late November.

    I wish I had not added the other to the problem. Too late now.
     
  8. G Wiz Ranch

    G Wiz Ranch Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:Do you think that it is only with one hen that "HE" causes the problem? Wouldn't it show up more frequently if he is the problem? Thanks for the help, I am puzzled.
     
  9. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Chicken Obsessed

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    Quote:Thanks, SS. I'm learning a lot on the topic and a lot of it is specifically from you.

    If I use your makeup for the RIR rooster and do a barred cuckoo for the hen but change E/E to E/e+ or E/e^b, I get a 50-50 mix on the color of the offspring. If I change S to s, I still get a 50-50 mix, just different colors. Half will be black sex link, but half will not. Or do you mean that 25% will be red or gold male and 25% will be red female? I also ran some mixes as you mentioned for the RIR rooster and got the same results. Am I missing something? If it is, I suspect it is something very simple.

    Even with the OP's editted numbers, I still think 6 colored chicks out of 7 hens and 100 eggs argues even more that just one of the hens has the dominant/recessive. These are probabilities after all, not definite percentages. And whether the rooster has any combination of E^Wh, e+, e^b, I don't see him necessarily being a "problem" creating sex linked chicks with the other BR or CM hens.

    If half the male offspring are yellow/gold and half the female are red, would that not argue that the hen has the silver gene? If it were s+/-gold wildtype, half the roosters would also be red?

    Thanks for your patience.
     
  10. catdaddyfro

    catdaddyfro Overrun With Chickens

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    I have a red hen sorta sex-link looking/ more like a NH hen look but she's a result of a RIRed roo X a half BRxRIR hen that is more a cuckoo patterned than barred so some of your hens may be only half barred making them seem to be BR and they are crossed with something else. Here's a picture of a hen that looks like the red hens mama:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I'll try later on to get a picture of the red hen as I'm waiting for the camera to get here so I can get some pics. of my Dellie babies as they progress.

    Here's a pic of the red hen that I hatched from the cross of a RIR roo X a BRxRIR cross hen=
    [​IMG]

    She looks almost like a NH or a red sex-link hen, huh?

    catdaddy
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010

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