Help with two new chicks please? *deformed claw*

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by mich01223, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. mich01223

    mich01223 Hatching

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    I've often come to this site when ive had problems before or when I've needed advice but this is my first actual post so hi everyone! Now we've just hatched our first lot of chicks they were Born yesterday and the first 2 that have come out both have bent claws. One chick has 2 bent claws and the other just the one. Now they're fluffing up and moving around more you can see that the claws are affecting there walking. I have read about making shoes for the chicks to help but wanted your opinions on what would be the best course of action to take? Do I leave them another day or so or is it something that needs sorting now? Thank you so much for any help or advice you give
     
  2. A pic would help! :)
    Welcome to BYC!
     
  3. mich01223

    mich01223 Hatching

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    [​IMG] here is one chicks foot will post another picture!
     
  4. mich01223

    mich01223 Hatching

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    [​IMG]

    Chick number 2
     
  5. I'd make splayed leg corrections as well as toe booties.
     
  6. chooks4life

    chooks4life Crowing

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    I would grow them out and cull. Booties and splay leg corrections as CochinrahmaLover said, to help them reach that age. They are genetically splay-legged. They inherited this and will pass it on. Whoever sold you these birds is breeding faulty birds and I bet they know it. These chicks take a while to manage to walk and it will always take them more effort than others because their whole leg is misaligned.

    The scaling on the legs indicates the structure underneath reliably. This is genetic, like when the fur whorl on a cow or horse's face is not 'dead-center' --- it indicates underlying genetic faults, and that animal should not be bred from. There are many seemingly pointless external points that show underlying structures reliably.

    If you look at the scales on the leg, the outside toe has dominance over the middle/ longest/ main toe; this is a structural fault that is causing them pain. See the redness in their feet? That is internal hemorrhaging; nothing fatal, but there is definitely pain and likely torn tissues in those feet. Chicks like these will breed bad chicks in turn. I'm sorry. I've been eradicating bad leg scaling from my flock because of the splay legged chicks it causes.

    Some spraddling is due to slipping in the brooder, but I never used an artificial brooder, and never have spraddled chicks without that scaling. This sort is caused by inheritance.

    It can favour the innermost toes or the outermost toes, but the scale line is supposed to lead directly up from the middle toe up the shin. If it does anything else, cull, because you get structurally misaligned chicks who suffer when trying to walk because their legs are weak towards either the inner or outer directions. Sorry you got a bodgy lot. Best wishes. They might make pets if you don't want to cull.
     
  7. mich01223

    mich01223 Hatching

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    :'( they're our chickens that we've bred from I would hate to think of the chicks in pain, one of the chicks that has been born has perfect feet why is this? Why when they've been bred from the same male? So sad.
     
  8. chooks4life

    chooks4life Crowing

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    That sucks. Took me several generations before I realized one of my 'imported' males had brought in that splay leg gene. He threw some good scaled chicks too but that was because the mothers were properly scaled. If you've inbred back to the faulty parent/s you'd be much more likely to see this sudden faulty generation crop up. (If this is emerging for the first time, then it will likely be a combination of recessive genes matching up). If you've had spraddled chicks before, suspect the parents even if you thought it was slip-spraddling, not genetic.

    You'd need to check over your ancestry records to find the hen/s who may have normal legs but might carry the gene. Not all carriers show. But at least one of your chooks, probably the rooster, would show incorrect leg scaling, and likely you've had spraddled chicks from the faulty parent/s before. It's times like these that you realize why you go to such efforts to keep records. ;)

    Sadly I think the only way to 'fix' that genetic trait is to cull, but I have a theory that some people with heritage breed chooks have managed to breed this out, or into a different expression. The resulting chooks do not have normal scaling, but it's fragmented so badly their legs are straight, if that makes sense. Right, left, right, left, right, left, when repeated closely enough, equals a straight line. lol. I've not seen this much in Aussie chooks but lots of American ones have it, mostly heritage breeds, hence my theory.

    Sorry to hear you have this in your flock. I have many beautiful chooks I cannot breed from because of it, and I've culled many more. I'd read SO many ancient and modern books on poultry and never once came across the reason why we are told to 'discard chicks whose leg scales are not straight' --- nor was I ever provided with a sample image of what a straight scaled leg was. All guesswork. Now I can pick up a chick that's wet from the egg and see whether or not I will have to cull. Damage control, now. Shame I didn't know this sooner. I've been trying to find some photos to use as references for others who ask how to check if their breeders have the genes. I've recently found two lots. I hope you don't mind if in future I direct people to this thread as a reference? Or could I cut out the leg part of the image as reference? Feel free to refuse for any reason, it's cool. Best wishes anyway.
     
  9. What do you mean by 'good scaling' or straight scaling? The leg scales? What's considered 'good scaling' ? I don't think I've ever seen bad scaling xD
     
  10. chooks4life

    chooks4life Crowing

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Top photo shows faulty leg scaling in an adult chicken. In this case the outside toe is 'dominant'. Chances are this chook needed help to learn to walk. It's pigeontoed as it is.

    The normal, good leg scales always run straight from the middle toe up the shin. They do not run from either the innermost or outermost toes straight up the shin, or to the opposite side of the knee. Any deviation from middle-toe-up-the-front-of-the-shin scaling is a fault that indicates genetic issues that will lead to spraddled chicks. It gets worse and worse as you try to breed it out; they will suffer with every step for their first week or so. It likely causes prolonged suffering even after they learn to walk on misaligned legs, since it would stress their deformed structures to continue to walk.

    Second photo illustrates my theory of 'recovered' spraddle-leg scaling. It's not normal except for in the very middle of the shin, but you can see up higher and lower it tries to deviate off to either side. Messy. But possibly acceptable. However, I would not accept him as a breeder because his spurs are angled inwards, so he will likely rip hen's flanks open, and misaligned spurs are another bad trait often linked to incorrect scaling. In the second photo you can see that what should be broad plats style scales on the shin have been replaced with smaller back of leg style scales. Or fragmented proper shin scales. I don't know for sure.

    I haven't got a good photo to demonstrate proper shin scaling to you, but if you can't spot it yet I can tell you from any good images of your chook's legs who carries it. The signs are more subtle on some, but always reliable if any incorrect leg scaling is shown. Some may have normal legs and carry it as a recessive gene though. That's where ancestry records are invaluable. All the best. A hen with spraddle leg genes can lay as well as any other, at least. A rooster with those genes tastes as well as any other.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2013

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