Help With Welsh Harlequin Gold/silver Phase Genetics

Discussion in 'Ducks' started by pirtykitty, Dec 14, 2010.

  1. pirtykitty

    pirtykitty Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Waco, Texas
    I'm trying to figure out what I need with Welsh Harlequin ducks to get gold and silver phase ducklings , in girl and boy ducks in each phase..

    I have a pair of silver phase from Metzers. Daisy is( Leucistic ) silver phase, but has darkened up some.. Stanley has the blue/green wing bar and black tail and is still working on his green neck.

    I would like to to hatch some in the spring but want the blood lines to be Holdereadeds .
    so that they will be sex linked, but I want boys and girls of both color phases.
    I know nothing about genectics..
    thank you
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2010
  2. rollyard

    rollyard Chillin' With My Peeps

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    The only difference between the gold & silver phase is the recessive sex-linked brown dilution gene. Gold phase birds have the sex-linked brown dilution gene, while the silver phase birds don't. If you cross a gold drake x silver duck, then all female progeny will be gold, while all male progeny will be silver, but they will carry one recessive brown gene hidden. If you cross the other way around ie silver drake x gold duck, then all ducklings will appear silver, but the male progeny will again carry hidden one recessive brown dilution gene.

    I would suggest that if you are wanting to breed both colour forms in both sexes, then the best way to go with limited understanding would be to have one pen of golds & one pen if silvers & keep them pure.
     
  3. Wifezilla

    Wifezilla Positively Ducky

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    My Metzer Welsh Harlequins were obviously sex linked. I know others have mentioned not all of them are, but my 3 hens from Metzer had very light pink bills when they were 3 days old. The ducklings I hatched out this spring through my metzer ducks with a holderread's drake were pretty easy to sex too. A few we weren't sure about, but it turned out they were from one of my gold looking metzer ducks. All her babies were very dark. We aren't going to hatch any of her eggs next spring.
     
  4. pirtykitty

    pirtykitty Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Hmm I wonder what I will get from Daisy and Stanley.. Daisy is what they call Leucistic I think thats what one of your is also... Daisy was a lot lighter and has gotten darker over the last year.. Amy the duck I lost to infection had the blue/green wing bars.. Daisy still doesn't have either side . Plus her bill is splotch where Amys was solid. But Daisy is really smart.. If either of them has the gold phase hidden

    Which one is your gold duck??? Shelly, Abby
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2010
  5. KansasKid

    KansasKid Chillin' With My Peeps

    Feb 7, 2010
    South East Kansas
    ok im really trying to understand all of this. So the brown dilution gene is sex linked recessive? For some reason its easier for me to understand when i draw out the punnet squares, i did this with mandarin white gene which is sex linked, do these look right.

    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
     
  6. Wifezilla

    Wifezilla Positively Ducky

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    Ow! My head just asploded! LOL

    Nice chart, but with my attention span, we just get splattered brains and no comprehension [​IMG] You need Dana (CityChicker). She really knows genetics.

    Which one is your gold duck??? Shelly, Abby

    Shelley is a silver. She also has a splotchy bill and feet, and only one wing bar. As far as coloring standard, she is a complete mess - BUT - Prairie Dawn, her daughter (by my silver Holderread's drake Tweak - Dana has him now [​IMG] ) is GORGEOUS! Solid slate bill, feet solid color and finally darker orange (they were pretty bright when she was younger) BOTH wing bars...just a really pretty girl. Like your Daisy, Shelley is way too smart for a duck. That is why I bred her despite her faults. Lots of personality, calm, funny, creative, a bit of an escape artist...LOL. Gotta love her. Prairie Dawn isn't quite as sharp as mom, but she isn't as dopey as some of the other ducks I have had either. I guess she takes a little more after dad [​IMG]

    Wendy is the gold I got in the same order with Shelley. He daughter (Abby) has the very noticeable eye striping and very dark feathers, but also has blue wing bars.

    Even though I am not so concerned about proper feathering for the breed so much, having more "to standard" ducks makes it way easier to sell off any extras.​
     
  7. OK, I'll give it a try.
    KansasKid the gene for silver or brown is sex linked so you will have to adjust your punnet square.
    The female only gets one of the pair of alleles which she inherits from the father, so if the father is homozygote (both alleles are the same) the daughter will display the same phase as her father. So if the father has two silver alleles, all his daughters will be silver. Same if he has two alleles for gold, his daughters will be silver. If he has one allele that is silver and the other gold, he will appear the same as a homozygote silver drake, but his daughters could either be silver or gold depending on which allele they inherit.
    A lot of silver drakes carry the recessive gold allele so until you see their offspring it's impossible to know for sure.
    EDIT, KK I just saw the rest of your diagram, you are doing the sex linking.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2010
  8. KansasKid

    KansasKid Chillin' With My Peeps

    Feb 7, 2010
    South East Kansas
    EDITED sorry just saw your edit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2010
  9. Wait, KK you can't have a hen with a recessive brown (gold).
    Err sorrry again! I misread what you said.
    Dyslexic people don't try this at home.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2010
  10. Big Dreamer

    Big Dreamer Chillin' With My Peeps

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    All I know with my 4 Welsh Harlequins is that 2 are boys 2 are girls the 2 girls are both golden phase 1 boy is silver and the other boy is pet quality silver i would think. I want to breed them when they are old enough, how can i tell that the pet quality boy wont have any part in it, because i want the phases being of show quality, and not pet quilty, or would i just have to take a chance?
     

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