HelpASAP mcmurray chicks have cocci now a baby goose just died

Discussion in 'Emergencies / Diseases / Injuries and Cures' started by KathyAnn, May 4, 2008.

  1. KathyAnn

    KathyAnn Out Of The Brooder

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    My mcmurray chickens now have cocci blood in their poop. A few weeks ago I had several diagnosed with AE from the state vet. Lots survived though, thought things were fine, all of a suggen mcmurray chickens started dropping like flies, next day I saw bloody poop. New I had cocci. Now fixing that, have lost quite a few and lost quite a few in another batch that's in with the mcmurray chickens, that I bought locally. AFter all ae was cleared up I put all the cickens together.

    a couple weeks ago I bought some baby geese. the one that died today is a chinese white. had bloody poop, died so quick. others are fine. geese are in a nother area completely away from the chickens.


    Question is, I didn't know geese got cocci? was always told not to feed them medicated feed. Now the guy at the feedstore says it won't hurt them, I do'nt want to loose the rest , they were very expensive. I'm in tears over this.

    My mcmurray chicks are week and have low immune systems, Why didn't mcmurray tell me just to kill them all, that they would always be suseptible to diseases and sickness. Their the ones that caused all this havock wiht all the other animals. chickens are dropping like flies, i've lost l5 to coccii the medication is sulmet and i've put powder same stuff as in the medicated feed, into the chick feed. as I had taken them off medicated chick starter and put them on regular starter. they are 6 weeks old though t that it was safe.

    Baby geese are just a couple weeks old.

    I have medicated sulmet water ready for the geese, can I give it to them? I almost fear their deaths if I don't, cause that baby goose that died was in with them.


    I don't know what to do, it's taking forever for the sulmet to take affect onthe chickens too. lost 4 this morn, and 2 more this after noon, it's in their feed and water. been on the meds for 3 days now.

    DH says never again will i buy animals, he's been burned, and it's mcmurray's fault.

    I have been refunded my mcmurray chickens by mcmurray, but they don't know what's goin gon now.
     
  2. jjthink

    jjthink Overrun With Chickens

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    Just wanted to say that I'm so very sorry about all these losses. What a dreadful situation - so much suffering. I hope very much that no more die.
    JJ
     
  3. silkiechicken

    silkiechicken Staff PhD Premium Member

    Cocci is in your soil and sounds like you've got it bad in your soil. It is a protozoa which gets eaten by the birds as oocysts. When did you expose them to the soil? Just because they are on medicated feed, doesn't mean that can't get it. If the geese are on the same dirt as the chickens, doesn't even have to be in the same pen, they can get it, and the organisms can live dormant for years, the bodies of the geese became quickly overwhelmed. Moist soil and warming conditions are prime areas for cocci to become a huge problem. All you can do now is medicate accordingly, with one med at a time, and keep the pens dry and clean.
     
  4. KathyAnn

    KathyAnn Out Of The Brooder

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    Mar 22, 2008
    The mcmurray and other chicks have never been outside their pen, their completely penned off from my

    l3 adult chickens and

    my 8 baby geese.

    Baby geese have never been in the same pen.
    Baby geese just got put onto fresh grass into the chick tractor about 3 or 4 days ago. but haven't been put in the same area.

    BUt yes, I've walked on it with my shoes. So I guess i'm the culpret.

    l3 adults are fine.

    I need to know if I can give sulmet to my baby geese?

    I have never in my life ever ever on this property had cocci before in any animal. This is a very new thing and jsut started 5 to 6 days ago with the mcmurray chicks getting sick first.

    Nobody had cocci before them.

    is why I blamed the poor immune systems of the mcmurray chicks, where else could it have happened from or started from. they had been off medicated chick starter for little over a week when they started getting sick.

    I still don't know what to do about this.

    and yes your right, I walked on the same ground as the ground I put the baby geese on. I didn't know as usual.
     
  5. snowydiamonds

    snowydiamonds Chillin' With My Peeps

    I wouldn't be so quick to blame the hatchery, either. Working at the hospital for 12 years and more here and there, along w/getting a beautician's license, there's a lot of information on a "body" that most people are unaware of. We & animals, birds, etc., have "suseptibilities" lurking all around, under, on, and surrounding us, just waiting on the chance that a tiny weak spot to invade our health...

    Silkie has made a big statement in her answer and you need to think seriously about taking big steps to change your surroundings. Possibly having gravel delivered, new topsoil, etc.

    Does your ground lie low, moist, warm, can you build up the area for drainage where you want the birds? Did you possibly integrate your flock too soon and shouldn't have, maybe at all?

    Certain birds need different living arrangements, like ducks and geese need wet and chickens need dry...

    When I got my geese, it was because they'd been living in the same coop as both standard chickens and banty chickens.

    The geese were trying to hatch a clutch each Spring and became territorial and are much larger than the chickens, they needed their own living space. It may have been too dry for their eggs to hatch, being a Chicken Coop as they weren't sucessful.

    The geese nearly killed the roo, and he's a beauty, very tame and kind to humans- it would have been a shame to lose Fred!

    In fact, I firmly believe banties and standards need their own living space, too. Whether by totally separate coops or fenced apart in the same coop if large enough.

    Its human reaction to immediately place blame but I've always tried to start with "How can I make changes to ensure sucess and avoid problems?" (Even then, its human to error)
     
  6. KathyAnn

    KathyAnn Out Of The Brooder

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    I can't do anything much that costs alot ofmoney as my Dh is out of work, and has been for about 6 months now. he's in construction and work is really slow. so doing what she suggested is out of our possibilities.

    It has rained terribly here over the past 2 months or so. weather has been cooler than usual too.

    I asked mcmurray 3 weeks ago about putting the 2 flocks together after the ae was cleared. they said it wouldn't hurt them ata all and they wouldn't get sick . so I did it because they told me it was ok to. I also would have killed every mcmurray bird out there if they had told me to.

    Ground isn't low for the most part, but is always wet becuase of all the rains.


    Is it true if they get over this, that they will be immune to it in the future Kind of like adult chickens are .

    Why would I have to replace the ground so to speak if I have some that make it through all this?

    BTW I gave the geese a quart jar of sulmet water and they drank the whole thing immediately. I guess they were thirsty. I hope it helps them.

    we've moved their chickentractor up to the frontof the property about 200 feet or so away from the other chickens. Do you think this is a good idea or a bad one?

    I don't understand why this has happened NOW. I've hatched off baby chicks for along time and hatched off ducks and geese for years. and have never had this problem before.


    and in the past, i've always taken the baby chicks off medicated starter after the first 50 # bag is gone. they've never gotten sick before. and have never lost any other chick to any diseases
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2008
  7. KathyAnn

    KathyAnn Out Of The Brooder

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    Mar 22, 2008
    This is what someone told me

    Cocci is almost always present in the environment, but rarely causes symptoms unless there is something wrong with the fowls immune system (like having had AE).


    I have no doubt in my own opinion that this trouble started with the mcmurray chickens. the history of this place and the past experience with raising chickens tells me that the problem came with the mcmurray chickens.

    I probably won't do anything about this, I was going to call mcmurray, but don't see how that will help the situation any.

    But I do feel if the unhealthy mcmurray chicks were healthy I wouldn't be having this trouble, since i've never had to deal with this before.

    I do want to thank you for all the help. I've medicated the goslings, and will just hope for the best.

    thanks again.

    kathy
     
  8. dlhunicorn

    dlhunicorn Human Encyclopedia

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    It has rained terribly here over the past 2 months or so. weather has been cooler than usual too. ...................Ground isn't low for the most part, but is always wet becuase of all the rains.
    Is it true if they get over this, that they will be immune to it in the future Kind of like adult chickens are .

    There is the clue to the problem> cocci IS present is the soil ground but can be managed best by keeping the area DRY (problems occur when conditions are WET) or if you cannot do that then having a raised floor or fixing you coop so that it is DRY will help enormously.
    The other problem is that we are talking relatively young birds here which have yet to build an "immunity" to the cocci (actually their bodies build up a "balance" of sorts and the adult birds immune system will not be so easily overwhelmed by the cocci as the younger birds will > the McMurray chicks have a weaker immune system and it will take them longer to achieve full immune competancy after their bout of illness)

    Cocci is very common even with show breeders who take all kinds of precautions with their birds.
    Follow the instructions on the sulmet explicitly.​
     
  9. silkiechicken

    silkiechicken Staff PhD Premium Member

    Best of luck. I now give a chunk of moist outdoor soil to my baby chicks within the first week so they can slowly build up immunity to the stuff before they are put out for good. I had chickens for 8 years.. then had cocci once, real bad, with a group who were brooder raised for the first 8 weeks of their life. Medicated feed and all. All it took was two heavy rains in the first week they were on soil late in summer and they all got sick. I've had chicks without medicated feed, raised in the same grow pen, on the same dirt, from day one and had them not get cocci. It's all a matter of timing and lots of luck, be it good or bad. The chicks were perfectly healthy to start too, only "wrong" was not exposing them early enough. The combo of wet soil and no prior exposure to the soil = sick chicks. Momma hen raising a single chick and running around with it at 3 days old in 40F rain grew up fine in the adult layer pen! And that place is far from sterile like a brooder is. Wild birds can even spread or change the dynamics of soil organisms too.

    And for the MM chicks, some literature, if you had read up on it, since many people hatcheries hire to answer the phones aren't specialists on chickens, does say to cull all birds with AE, others don't. Same goes for cocci, although I have not seen the claimed decrease in production in the birds who had it and recovered.

    Best of luck.
     
  10. KathyAnn

    KathyAnn Out Of The Brooder

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    Mar 22, 2008
    I forgot, DUH my baby chicks are on concrete not dirt. with fresh hay for bedding every other day or so. They do get to go out in their pen which is wet but for the most part their in their house which is a concrete floor.

    I don't know why I ddin't add this in earlier.

    the chickens bottoms are dry . the geese bottoms aren't though. chckens get to go out and their pen is grassless right now, but they don't venture far from their house.

    I got 5 more sick chckens and 2 more dead this morning, just doesn't seem like the medicine is working.
     

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