Horses and money

[abigalerose]

How do you make money off of horses? And I'm not talking about getting rich or turning a huge profit. But making enough to provide feed, care, and possibly some tack for them, without paying for it out of pocket.
I was kickin around some ideas and thought of having a couple stallions to stud out, not sure how reasonable it is, but if they were proven and had good bloodlines and conformation, maybe it could help lesson the feed bill?

 

[donrae]

How much money would you plan on spending on your young stallion?

How much is it going to cost just to feed and maintain him until he's old enough to compete?

How much for his boarding and training and campaigning?

How much on advertising?

How much on that pipe fencing for the acre?

How much on the building for the stall?

Where are you going to board the mares? Do you have separate stalls/paddocks, with fencing appropriate for foals at side?

How much is insurance going to run? Are you doing live cover? What if one horse injures the other?



Add all that up, divide by the realistic number of mares your stallion will stand to in your area, and see how much you'd need to charge for a stud fee to even start to break even.

 

[Bunnylady]

Stallions are a constant headache - even well-behaved ones. You need a fence that would stop a charging rhino, because heaven forbid that your animal breaks out and makes himself a nuisance to the neighbors. He will most likely need to be confined alone, and will most likely need extra feed because of all the energy he burns off pacing the perimeter of whatever space he is confined to. One of the "rules of thumb" that get passed around among horse people is that, if you buy a mare that may have been at a place that had a stallion on the premises, you should get her pregnancy tested; you might be amazed at how many "whoops!" foals are out there. An awful lot of boarders have been incensed when their mare turns up pregnant unexpectedly; most mare owners won't even consider boarding at a place that houses a stallion (it's unusual, but mares have been bred through fences). Gelding owners will be worried about the stud getting out and beating up their geldings; most would opt not to risk it by keeping their horses at a place that doesn't keep stallions. Very few boarding facilities will take stallions as boarders; those who do usually charge extra.

As kajira said, it takes more than bloodlines to 'sell' a stud - he has to have done something to make people believe he is worth sending a mare to. That means you have to campaign him, or pay someone else to campaign him, to get him the exposure and draw the interest of mare owners. That's time and money, above and beyond the cost of merely maintaining him. If someone sends a mare to you, you have to board her, and if it takes more than one cycle to get her settled, that's more of your time and energy that you may or may not get reimbursed for - there are lots of ways that this can cost more than it pays. A lot of people who keep broodmares send them to the stud while the mare is already in foal or with a foal at her side, which puts responsibility for care of the baby and possibly the delivery on the stud's owner.

The race horse industry arbitrarily assigns January 1st as the birth date of all horses in their registry. Every TB that was born in 2015 officially turned a year old on 1/1/2016, even if it was actually foaled the week before. As you can imagine, this would put any colt born late in the year at a severe disadvantage when it started racing as a "2-year-old." It might not matter as much in performance-based disciplines, but in those where very young animals compete (like conformation classes), age matters, so there is a general tendency toward breeding so that foals get born in the Spring. As a result, even popular stallions tend to stand idle for most of the year.

Locally, "full board" means a stall, two meals a day, daily turnout, with feed/hay/shavings provided, and the labor to get the stall cleaned and the horse in and out and fed. The usual price for that is between $350-$400/month, and about half of that is supplies. Someone built an absolutely top-rate facility with lots of amenities, including hot/cold water in the wash stalls and a covered arena, and tried to charge $600/month - and went broke. It's a tough market.

Most of the folks around here barely break even - they have some other business that brings in the cash, and the horses are a sideline.

 

[Bunnylady]

Quote: One stallion, living in a repurposed outbuilding, and a couple of pretty mares "with good bloodlines" . . . . that is exactly most people's definition of a backyard breeder. Where did the idea that one has to be cranking out huge quantities of inbred, almost unidentifiable disasters to qualify come from? Makeshift facilities and a shoestring budget aren't exactly the hallmarks of polished, competent professionalism, y'know.

The animals don't have to be badly treated, or even particularly bad specimens; a backyard breeder is often just a little hobby operation that never really gets off the ground because the owner doesn't really know what they're doing/can't afford to really do it right.

I'm sorry, but the only "correct" way to use barbed wire around horses is "to not to." Just because you have never had a horse run another horse into it and get all wrapped up and cut to ribbons doesn't make it safe. At the place where I used to work there were a couple hundred feet of barbed wire at the back of both of the main pastures. While we never had a horse get severely lacerated, several of them did come up sporting parallel, equidistant deep scratches - the unmistakable mark of barbed wire. Usually it was a young/newish animal that had gotten pushed into it by a more dominant horse; fortunately, what was on the other side was dense woods, so the horses didn't want to get really close to it in the first place. The worst wire injury I saw was done by an inactive hot wire fence - without the shock, the horses got all over it and knocked it down, and one horse got it wrapped around his hind legs. He came frighteningly close to a permanently crippling injury. If you must surround horses with strands of wire, at least hot wire encourages the horses to keep their distance - as long as it is kept charged.

 

[Bunnylady]

If you aren't satisfied with the amount you are spending/losing on horses already, get a stallion. It'll make you feel like the way things are now were pure heaven.

 

[dainerra]

I have dogs, not horses, but there is a lot of similarity when it comes to money. There is an old joke in both dogs and horses. "How do you end up with a little money from horses? Start with a LOT of money!!"
Campaigning is expensive. You have training expenses. Travel expenses. Entry fees. Advertising (if you plan to breed). You don't just have to have a good horse/dog. You have to have one of the best. You need to show potential clients why they should choose your stud over another one. People who will be a bit more lenient won't be willing to pay the price of a good stud fee. Those who are willing to pay top dollar expect to get their money's worth.

That means that you have to have the bloodlines as well as the work put in to prove that he has inherited those good qualities. And then, in the end, it will still be a crap shoot. He may be the greatest horse ever and not produce well. The best advertisement for your stud is to make sure that his offspring are out there and winning competitions as well. Sometimes the best way to do that is to campaign at least one of them yourself. This is also important because it gives you a better understanding of what he produces vs just watching how other people handle his foals.

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

The others have already said it pretty well. Owning horses is expensive, and there is little money to be made on them. Your best bet is probably boarding, but even that means money for insurance, time taking care of horses, maintenance of the property, etc. in the end, unless you are able to board many horses, you probably won't be making much.

Stallions are tough. Many of them are dangerous and they are not able to be housed the same as other horses. Many will have to be kept alone. Before even thinking about buying a stallion, I would suggest working with them first. I found them pretty unpredictable.

Raising a horse takes a LOT of money. Training a horse takes a lot of money. Showing a horse takes an astronomical amount of time AND money.

I think the better route would be to find a job in something that makes decent money but allows enough time for your hobby.

Honestly, unless you have been training horses for many years and have apprenticed under other trainers/proven your skill, you probably will not find many people will to pay you to train their horses. Not to mention the liability training horses incurs.

 

[waddles99]

I don't have horses or have any experience with them, but I knew a guy who did. He made money a couple of ways. He grew his own hay and sold it. It was good stuff, too. He did a great job. He also charged people to trailer their horses around. I think he charged $1.50 per mile. As someone mentioned above, he boarded horses too. Don't know how much money he made, it had a lot of costs involved. He also imported horses and sold them. I thought that was interesting. He definitely made money there.

 

[BaroqueHen]

OMG... As a horse owner, I have to tell you that you need a LOT more experience and training. From your questions alone, there is no way I would entrust a horse to you. Add to that the fact that you think barbed wire is acceptable horse fencing!!!! Young horses in barbed wire....that is a disaster waiting to happen and you don't have the experience to even know that??? You don't know enough about horses to be training. I'm sure you have good intentions, and I do't want to squash your dreams, but I'd advise you to walk before you attempt running.

Right now, what you are talking about is basically backyard breeding. Believe me, the horse world does NOT need anymore backyard breeders. If you are really serious about making horses your life, you should look for a well established trainer and see if they are taking apprentices. From what you've revealed so far, I doubt they would consider you have enough knowledge but they might be willing to let you hang around and learn a few things. I TRULY don't mean to be insulting, but your lack of knowledge and experience is shining through your posts. It's fine to dream, but it's better to dream realistically. Is there any school around with an equine program? Maybe your equine vet needs volunteer help? You have a LOT to learn. Also, look into liability insurance because if you continue with your plans you are SERIOUSLY going to need it.

 

[MeepBeep]

Please if you don't have any real 'professional' or long time experience on the subject, don't call those offering real legitimate advice, concerns and suggestions 'jerks' because you don't like to hear the blunt reality they offer...

A quick Google search for barbed wire and horses will reveal that it's almost never appropriate fencing for horses especially young ones...

http://bfy.tw/7DVf

You can argue with anecdotal claims all you want but that doesn't change the fact that barbed wire and horse is almost never a good mix or recommend, and because a person brought this fact up does not make them a 'jerk'...