Hybrid Vigor

Discussion in 'Meat Birds ETC' started by Misty Oak Ranch, Jul 11, 2010.

  1. Misty Oak Ranch

    Misty Oak Ranch In the Brooder

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    Nov 17, 2009
    Bluefield
    I figured this place was the right place to post this question. When crossing various breeds of chickens, what type of increase in weight gain, egg laying ability, faster featheriing etc., can be seen as a result of hybrid vigor? Say if you have two distinct F1 crosses, and those two are crossed again, can anything be expected to increase over the intial increases exhibited in the F1 generation?
     
  2. eKo_birdies

    eKo_birdies Songster

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    May 11, 2010
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    i personally have no experience w/ breeding chickens so unfortunately i can't be of much help..

    maybe one of the folks w/ breeding experience or current breeding projects going on will chime in! [​IMG]
     
  3. SteveH

    SteveH Songster

    Nov 10, 2009
    West/Central IL
    Not really experienced so much with chickens , but can tell you crossbreeding may give you crossbred vigor but not hybrid vigor . The old " Cornish Rocks " were great crossbreds with great crossbred vigor , but they used highly refined lines of White Cornish on White Plymouth Rocks or Barred Plymouth Rock for the crosses . In fact a straight Cornish crossed on a New Hampshire Red was the first big commercial meat bird success but white feathered birds soon replaced them . The modern hybrid meaties come from even further refined parent lines ; usually 4 lines each used as a male or female line only , merging into 1 male line and 1 female line , that are crossed for the terminal generation [ which is the one hatched and fed for slaughter ] . Some breeds are known for the ability to cross well on others , but you should be advised that those doing it successfully usually develope their own lines of the breeds that work better together than just making a cross of any old representatives of the two breeds .
     
  4. aggieterpkatie

    aggieterpkatie Songster

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    I don't have much experience with this in chickens, but I do with other livestock (mainly sheep). The F1 offspring are generally the "best" for hybrid vigor. Once you breed two F1 animals their offspring aren't as impressive as the original cross. Most people who crossbreed animals for hybrid vigor keep two distinct breeds. For example, if a sheep producer is wanting to get good market lambs, he'd likely keep a Suffolk (or possibly Hampshire or other meat breed ram) and good white faced ewes instead of keeping a flock of crossbred ewes and rams.
     
  5. eKo_birdies

    eKo_birdies Songster

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    Northern Colorado
    Quote:makes sense!! that is similar w/ plants as well.

    do you notice a huge amount of variation w/ your F1s? or not as much because the parent lines are stabilized..?
     
  6. pgpoultry

    pgpoultry Songster

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    Wales
    F1 hybrids are usually bred to try to have the 'good' characteristics of two blood lines being evident in the offspring.

    Though I cannot say what happens from two F1 crosses, but I would have thought that there would be a huge variety in the offspring due to there being 4 different blood lines.

    My unintentional Brahma X Warren (Light Sussex X RIR) crosses are growing at about twice the rate of my Brahma chicks and seem very fit birds. One is a hen, so it remains to be seen when she will start to lay and what size and number of eggs there will be. The crosses are very pretty, but they do not look anything alike.

    Sandie
     
  7. aggieterpkatie

    aggieterpkatie Songster

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    Quote:makes sense!! that is similar w/ plants as well.

    do you notice a huge amount of variation w/ your F1s? or not as much because the parent lines are stabilized..?

    Well, it depends. If the parent stock you're breeding is all fairly similar, your offpsring in theory should be fairly similar.
     
  8. Bucky182

    Bucky182 Songster

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    I can't really speak for chickens but have raised cattle and if you cross one pure breed on another the off spring will gain wieght faster and be more healthy than either of the parents a result of getting the genes from both sides. The most ideal cross is cattle is to cross two that are both 50/50 of different breeds. An example would be a cow that was 1/2 herford and 1/2 black angus bred to a bull that was 1/2 limosene (SP) and 1/2 Red Pole the resulting calf would grow faster and be healthier than any of its parents or grandparents.
     
  9. Misty Oak Ranch

    Misty Oak Ranch In the Brooder

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    Nov 17, 2009
    Bluefield
    I've never done it with chickens, I have with goats and I've been impressed. I have a purebred Kiko buck, and had a doeling out of a spanish doe, and at 4 months she bigger than a year old boer doe we have. I ws thinking along the lines of standard Cornish, Buckeyes, and New Hampshire Reds. I was thinking of crossing the DC with a buckeye hen and NHR hen, and a buckeye roo with a NHR hen, and see what comes of those crosses. I thought about then taking those three crosses and crossing between them to see what happens. I had some SLW and austrolorp chicks last fall, and those grew really fast, so I'm curious about those three since they are all fairly quick maturing and kinda large and well framed.
     
  10. kiwi-chookn

    kiwi-chookn In the Brooder

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    Aug 15, 2009
    the trick is to nail down the dominant gene(for the purpose needed),be it in the male or female line,also being it recessive or dominant,thats the tricky bit,as the genes you want may not be so evident on the first run.
    I bred plants over many years,and although not the same thing,it is easier to see your results as plants mature fast,and can be force flowered to show desired traits for breeding.
     

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